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kuliwil
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Post by kuliwil »

VikingBoyBilly wrote:
DSL wrote:Yeah now it's only Commander Keen that is the REAL Forever.
Dunno if that's a good thing or bad... Yes it's bad. And Sad :(
I think you're forgetting Jazz Jackrabbit 3 here :(
And Monster Bash 2.

There's a fuclload of other examples you could list off. Pocky and Rocky (KikiKaiKai) hasn't done so well after the 2nd SNES game. I know there's a Playstation Reboot but I never got the chance to play it.
Jazz 3D did have preliminary development and an alpha build WAS leaked, from memory, but they had difficulty with their distributor I think. Apparently Jazz 2 was the only game that they ever made a loss on and they didn't want to risk doing it again. They'd be rich now if they had been bothered! Or rich-er.
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Post by Galaxieretter »

Jazz Jackrabbit got left behind after furries completely trashed the fan community.

Then Epic was just like "yeaaaaah... we don't need that kind of an image" and junked JJ. (IMO)
Gears was a much better play.
CKeen wrote:To be honest, a commander keen game released today would probably suck. It's not really the cute-platformer-games era anymore. Only Mario is the one still going I believe.
I completely disagree with you here.

To make Commander Keen succeed, I would say that removal of abstract items, like floating ice cream, would need to go, but as a 2D Platformer, if done correctly...

It would rock.

Also, I think Commander Keen would do real good as a point-and-click game sort of like the SCUMM games. That's probably just me.

But either way, I disagree with your statement.
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Post by DHeadshot »

Random items can stay if they're tounge-in-cheek, like spoofs of other games with such items...
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Post by DaVince »

Jazz Jackrabbit got left behind after furries completely trashed the fan community.
Are you sure? That seems too unlikely... It was 1998, you know, the whole furry hate thing didn't really exist back then. Kuliwil made the most important point - JJ2 made a loss. Can't imagine why, since it's a great platformer and JJ1 did good too.
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Post by Lava89 »

Here's a good article on Jazz 3: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_Jackrabbit_3

I think Epic dropped the game because of the "ID Software" complex-- they probably just felt like making more "mature" titles, like Unreal (and eventually Gears of War). So then, Jazz was dragging them down.

And if what kuliwil said was true, then maybe they just didn't feel like promoting Jazz 2 enough? You'd think after all of these years they'd put out something for Jazz. Also, why would they lose money on a platformer, which was the biggest game genre just a few years back? The market was shifting more towards first person shooters-- which I think affected Jazz 2's market by either Epic's intention (not promoting Jazz 2 to leave room for their shooters) or by just the sway of the market.

As for Keen, I don't think it has to be "cutesy" at all. Otherwise we'd be treading into the bright colors of Mario 64 and Donkey Kong 64. Instead I could see a new Keen game going more into a stylized\comical format with a focus on humor. An example of this is Crash Bandicoot 1-3 and Ratchet & Clank.
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Post by Galaxieretter »

DaVince wrote:
Jazz Jackrabbit got left behind after furries completely trashed the fan community.
Are you sure? That seems too unlikely... It was 1998, you know, the whole furry hate thing didn't really exist back then. Kuliwil made the most important point - JJ2 made a loss. Can't imagine why, since it's a great platformer and JJ1 did good too.
Furries have been around since the mid-90's.
It's not about hate, it's about the actual, real-world image they have.
Cool game guys, if it has the connotation of furries plastered all over it. PTHTHTHTHTH!
Furries ARE cool though.
Lava89 wrote:Here's a good article on Jazz 3: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_Jackrabbit_3

I think Epic dropped the game because of the "ID Software" complex-- they probably just felt like making more "mature" titles, like Unreal (and eventually Gears of War). So then, Jazz was dragging them down.
And where would Epic be right now with out Gears, their only moneymaker in the past 5 years?
Also, the Unreal engine brought in a bit of revenue. The Unreal 3 engine kicks ass. Companies make as much money off of their engines as the games them self.
Jazz 2... good game, but not what is needed for cash, which is the bottom line in the industry.

I don't think that Epic was intimidated by ID. Since ZZT, they've shown that they can produce engines that are as good...

er, as good as ID's... sometimes.
(Because Jill's engine beats the Galaxy engine, hands down.) :rolleyes
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Post by kuliwil »

Lava89 wrote:Also, why would they lose money on a platformer, which was the biggest game genre just a few years back?
It was designed for Windows 95, and a good Windows 95 computer too. I guess just not enough people had the hardware to take it.

Didn't they make a GBC version of Jazz too? And like Keen, it wasn't really Jazz?
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Post by DHeadshot »

kuliwil wrote:Didn't they make a GBC version of Jazz too? And like Keen, it wasn't really Jazz?
Never seen one and it's not on DopeRoms...
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Post by tulip »

kuliwil wrote:Didn't they make a GBC version of Jazz too? And like Keen, it wasn't really Jazz?
GBA, but yeah, had almost nothing to do with Jazz 1 or 2 from what I saw.
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Post by IMA3HDDMNKY »

Yeah, there's a GBA Jazz game, but from what I've heard it's just about as bad as GBC Keen. Never played it myself though.
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Post by Paramultart »

I had Commander Keen for GBC and Jazz Jackrabbit for GBA, and they were both awful. They completely changed Jazz into a Star Trek parody, and broke him up with that really hot blue bunny with the massive heaving rack from the first 2 games.

I really wish they finished Jazz 3. I have the beta of it, and it was looking pretty good. (Very unfinished) Was on the UT engine.

Keen for GBC was just... no.

So yeah... Way to piss on Jazz and Keen's graves.
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Lava89
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Post by Lava89 »

@Galaxieretter: I don't think Epic was intimidated by ID either, I just use the "ID complex" to describe the similar process that Epic and ID shared-- drop the light-hearted platformers for the gritty shooters. Which, like you said, brought Epic lots of cash.

It's like when Nintendo started marketing to the casual gamer.
kuliwil wrote: It was designed for Windows 95, and a good Windows 95 computer too. I guess just not enough people had the hardware to take it.
You could be right, but I doubt that was true. The game came out in 98...so by then everyone was already playing Quake and even it's sequel. Quake 1 and 2 both used more real-time models instead of sprites, so the graphics were much more advanced than what was released before. Anyone who could play those games could have the hardware for the 2D stuff. And I doubt Quake 1 and 2 were a dent financially.

In fact, I think because there were at least 7 popular shooters out by the time Jazz was released proves my hypothesis ever further. The market was shifting towards shooters and Epic might've skimped out on promoting Jazz 2 because of this...so they could just say "oh, it looks like Jazz 2 didn't do so well..but the upside is that our shooters did!.... so let's make more of them!".

Just an idea :)
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