Gaming discussion with CKeen

Dynamo · Post by **Dynamo** » Wed Nov 10, 2010 20:50

KeenRush wrote:Yeah, it's amazing how strong the game is still going.

I don't want to sound pessimistic but this community is "strong" only because a lot of people here don't play many games other than keen. In fact, keen is often the only game they play.

This is kinda sad if you ask me.

Fluiq wrote:And I wouldn't be surprised if they won't mention the game on its 20th "birthday".

This is because, honestly, no one cares except for some people on here. ID has got some bigger titles to care about. Like seriously, would you care about commander keen if you owned Doom? Also, Rage is all I have to say.

StupidBunny · Post by **StupidBunny** » Wed Nov 10, 2010 20:58

CKeen wrote:I don't want to sound pessimistic but this community is "strong" only because a lot of people here don't play many games other than keen. In fact, keen is often the only game they play.

Fairly enough, I've been an active member of a Doom forum for a few years now but I'm still pretty active in the Keen community. I generally go back and forth between Keen and Doom modding and will likely continue to do so as I have for a few years now. Both are very different experiences and very effective creative outlets (for me at least) so I don't see leaving the Keen community anytime soon, even as I am involved with other, larger gaming communities.

Dynamo · Post by **Dynamo** » Wed Nov 10, 2010 21:04

StupidBunny wrote:
CKeen wrote:I don't want to sound pessimistic but this community is "strong" only because a lot of people here don't play many games other than keen. In fact, keen is often the only game they play.
Fairly enough, I've been an active member of a Doom forum for a few years now but I'm still pretty active in the Keen community. I generally go back and forth between Keen and Doom modding and will likely continue to do so as I have for a few years now. Both are very different experiences and very effective creative outlets (for me at least) so I don't see leaving the Keen community anytime soon, even as I am involved with other, larger gaming communities.

Of course you aren't part of the group of people I mentioned then. I too visit various other gaming communities (I'm even a moderator on Skulltag) but I do not plan on leaving these forums or anything. Though to be honest it's kinda sad to see that this community is in part closed minded. I dislike how ID is hated here for how they gave up on commander keen and started the "violent game that inspires violence in children" Doom. Even though a comparision between keen and doom would be definitely odd since they're two different genres and have a different approach, one can't deny Doom was indeed more successful than Keen when it was released and a new keen game would not have been as successful as doom was. That said it is indeed a good thing to have an active modding community but as I already said, videogames aren't just Keen.

mortimermcmirestinks · Post by **mortimermcmirestinks** » Wed Nov 10, 2010 22:26

CKeen wrote:
StupidBunny wrote:
CKeen wrote:I don't want to sound pessimistic but this community is "strong" only because a lot of people here don't play many games other than keen. In fact, keen is often the only game they play.
Fairly enough, I've been an active member ... et cetera
Of course you aren't part of the group of people I mentioned then.

Am I? I hope not. I haven't played Keen in a while now, actually.

Dynamo · Post by **Dynamo** » Wed Nov 10, 2010 22:34

This isn't a matter of who is and who isn't, I am speaking of the community as a whole. Part of the community as a whole (<Grammar Nazi> it sounds terrible, I know) generally only plays Keen and a few other selected dos games like Cosmo.

Post by **Ceilick** » Wed Nov 10, 2010 23:03

Though to be honest it's kinda sad to see that this community is in part closed minded. I dislike how ID is hated here for how they gave up on commander keen and started the "violent game that inspires violence in children" Doom.

id is disliked because they won't let go of the keen rights for what seems like no reason at all. The issue with id's change in style and not doing anything with keen only comes up because they're sitting on a pile of keen rights and laughing.

Part of the community as a whole ... generally only plays Keen and a few other selected dos games like Cosmo.

Honestly, I'm not sure who this part of the community consists of

. I don't think its very many, and I definately don't think its why this community is 'strong'.

Dynamo · Post by **Dynamo** » Wed Nov 10, 2010 23:36

Ceilick wrote:id is disliked because they won't let go of the keen rights for what seems like no reason at all. The issue with id's change in style and not doing anything with keen only comes up because they're sitting on a pile of keen rights and laughing.

Still this doesn't apply to the ID-related post I quoted. You're right about the ID issue but some people seem to jump on the ID hate train just for the hell of it.

Ceilick wrote:Honestly, I'm not sure who this part of the community consists of . I don't think its very many, and I definately don't think its why this community is 'strong'.

A lot of keeners I've talked to (even on IRC) seem to ignore most other video games. At least that's the impression I got.

Even then, this is the only community in which I saw topics like this one

viewtopic.php?t=1524&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Or like this one.

viewtopic.php?t=1623&start=0

Which are either dumb or border on "fanaticism".

Commander Spleen · Post by **Commander Spleen** » Wed Nov 10, 2010 23:52

I'm also wondering who you speak of, "even in IRC". I've heard a lot of discussion there about various games outside of the Keen series.

The ones who might qualify as Keen-only gamers are probably people who enjoy coding and development more than playing games, in which case Keen is partly an outlet for these interests. Though I don't think there are many such people around here.

Dynamo · Post by **Dynamo** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 0:19

Commander Spleen wrote:I'm also wondering who you speak of, "even in IRC". I've heard a lot of discussion there about various games outside of the Keen series.

<Mink> sup Genius314 play OpenRA with us
<Genius314> nnn
<CKeen> hey Genius314 do you like Doom
<Genius314> nnn
<CKeen> well you don't like shooters and rts games, at least check out Rayman which is one of the best platformers ever
<Genius314> nnn

<MOM4evr> I stopped playing Red Alert because it was too gory.

:P

Commander Spleen · Post by **Commander Spleen** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 0:21

hahawaht (Edit: hahacontext)

I see.

Still, I'd say if you run down the list of games a bit more, you'll get a better response. You keep at it.

MOM4Evr · Post by **MOM4Evr** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:42

Hey, I was like 7 at the time, ok? Cut me some slack. I'd never even heard of Doom back then, either. I just don't play too many games. I am branching out some now, but it's hard to find good games for free nowadays. (or good games at all, for that matter) The old classics are great, for the most part.

I personally only happen to like good, clean games that are actually fun to play, which eliminates 95% of the games out there, so it's not my fault if I play Keen more than other games. There just aren't many games out there that I like.

Fluiq · Post by **Fluiq** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:09

I don't see why ID doesn't do anything with the commander keen series, they could just release the rights or the source.

Also, I don't see why all these company's (Epic, 3Drealms, ID) had to give up on platformers.
I loved games like Jill of the Jungle, Crystal Caves, Duke Nukem, Jazz Jackrabbit.
Jazz jackrabbit got replaced by unreal
Keen got replaced by doom and quake.
Duke nukem never got replaced (and I actually thing duke should be fps).
But they stopped making games such as crystal caves.

I don't hate these company's for doing that, it was an obvious choice at the time, It was a whole new way of playing games.
But these days I get SICK of all the fps titles.

It seems that the small companies are not afraid to start a new type of gameplay, and the big companies want to stick with the trusted gamplay.
Thats why we probably won't see anything revolutionary in gaming from any company soon.

And besides, why aren't platformer titles trusted with these companies?
Capcom still releases megaman games, and they are succesful.

The answer is: Big companies just want to make BIG games with a formula that has worked for ages, so they can sell it for $60 on release date.
(Instead of a small game for $10)

Thats why I have been playing more indie games lately, you still see some good refreshing titles from indie companies.

There is always a chance we get to see a good platformer from a indie developer. (there are actually some which I haven't played).
Unfortunately, without pogo

Nospike · Post by **Nospike** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 13:03

ID doesn't give out the source code and the rights because they just don't care. Do you know of the hanging dead Keen in Doom 2? That's not a "just for fun" easter egg, it's what ID thinks about the Keen franchise. The only two people from ID who really have interest in Keen are Tom Hall and John Romero.

Commander Spleen · Post by **Commander Spleen** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 14:00

There's a difference between not having an interest and actively having a disinterest.

Dynamo · Post by **Dynamo** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 16:07

MOM4Evr wrote:Hey, I was like 7 at the time, ok? Cut me some slack. I'd never even heard of Doom back then, either.

Calm down, I didn't want to offend you, I just posted what you said.

Besides, how does being 7 imply that RA1 is a "too gory" game? I mean it's not like it's dead space, and even then, I was 3 when I first played ra1 and didn't find it "gory" at all. You're just too used to non-violent games, that's it.

MOM4Evr wrote:I just don't play too many games.

Proves my point right.

MOM4Evr wrote:I personally only happen to like good, clean games that are actually fun to play, which eliminates 95% of the games out there, so it's not my fault if I play Keen more than other games. There just aren't many games out there that I like.

This is false on so many levels. "95% of the games out there" aren't fun? Are you kidding me? Again, proves you pretty much have no idea about videogames in general. Besides, at your age you shouldn't really bother about "violent or not" games anymore. I can name 10 if not 100 games that are very fun to play and aren't keen.

And I don't want this to be taken as an offense by you. It's just a fact.

Fluiq wrote:I don't see why ID doesn't do anything with the commander keen series, they could just release the rights or the source.

Also, I don't see why all these company's (Epic, 3Drealms, ID) had to give up on platformers.
But they stopped making games such as crystal caves.

Because ID has Doom. Who even cares about a silly platformer when you got a title like that? Same goes for Epic and 3DRealms. Would you want to compare Bio Menace with Shadow Warrior? Or Jazz Jackrabbit with.... I dunno, Bulletstorm? (Which still needs to come out but it looks awesome).

Fluiq wrote:But these days I get SICK of these fps titles.

I agree that the FPS genre really has become TOO popular (fucl call of duty and similar games, they're the most horrible games ever conceived by humanity), but so have platformers. In the past there used to be just platformers. They made their time.

Fluiq wrote:It seems that the small companies are not afraid to start a new type of gameplay, and the big companies want to stick with the trusted gamplay.
Thats why we probably won't see anything revolutionary in gaming from any company soon.

Gaming never really needed an alternative if we see what they did with games like CoD. The problem is that since those game companies have high budgets they usually focus on the graphics and story-side of the games. Which is completely wrong. What the hell happened to gameplay?

Fluiq wrote:And besides, why aren't platformer titles trusted with these companies?
Capcom still releases megaman games, and they are succesful.

And Nintendo still releases Mario games, and they are succesful. Care to name more that aren't Nintendo's or other ultra-milked franchises like Spyro or Ratchet that got lame after their third game?

Fluiq wrote:The answer is: Big companies just want to make BIG games with a formula that has worked for ages, so they can sell it for $60 on release date.
(Instead of a small game for $10)

Yeah. Unfortunately. Also I'm not sure if you could call those BIG games since they're usually ultra short and linear. Which is also why they suck.

Nospike wrote:ID doesn't give out the source code and the rights because they just don't care. Do you know of the hanging dead Keen in Doom 2? That's not a "just for fun" easter egg, it's what ID thinks about the Keen franchise. The only two people from ID who really have interest in Keen are Tom Hall and John Romero.

This is true. The hanged commander keen sprite was an idea by Adrian Carmack because during the keen era he became tired of working with a "silly character" and wanted a more serious game. I can't blame him for that, either.