MOM4Evr wrote:Hey, guys, sorry if I caused this whole huge debate myself... didn't mean to...
Why are you apologizing? Forums are meant to discuss things. That is exactly what we are doing here.
MOM4Evr wrote:It's a matter of worldview and upbringing. You, as an Atheist (I take it), have no qualms about whatever games you play, as long as they seem "fun" to you. (Correct me if I'm wrong) To you, the games are there simply for the purpose of playing them and having fun.
First, I'm not really an atheist. I'm agnostic (fucl typo). If I have to be honest although I think atheism is more plausible to me being atheist is just as arrogant as being christian (no offense intended to anyone, it's just what I think).
Second, that is both correct and non-correct. I do play games like Rayman and Keen that are light-hearted and do not feature blood or anything, but I also play more "violent" games like Blood or Shadow Warrior. But as I stated earlier in the thread I would also not play games that seem immoral to me. For example I wouldn't play a game where you take the role of a young nazi officer and must kill jews just because they're jews, or you have to torture people or something. I would never play something like that. In most games I play as I said, you're usually the "good guy" and even if you're evil you're usually going against an even bigger evil, so you are automatically not committing moral crimes in a way. Hell, even in GTA you're somehow the "nicest" guy around and in a lot of games like vice city stories and san andreas you are actually forced to kill people. In addition to this the San Andreas and Vice City Stories characters, as well as others, seem to dislike drugs and similar stuff. I know nobody cares but I thought I'd say it anyway.
However, the reason I like games like Shadow Warrior is because they're fun to play, yes. The combat system is kick-ass, the levels are well designed and fun to explore, the weapons are nice and varied, there are a lot of items and powerups that you can use, there are puzzles that give you a break from the shooting, and the monsters are challenging and sometimes hard to take down, and just fun to fight. This is why I like games like this one.
MOM4Evr wrote:For me, serving God is priority #1. You may think this isn't "fun", but sounds lame. Hence why you are an Atheist. But serving God gives me joy (Scripturally defined joy, not some kind of happiness or feelings as others may define it), and for me, this is more important than having "fun". To me, your definition of "fun" sounds shallow, but it sounds deep to you.
I still can't understand how God has anything to do with Doom. If you're a real christian you should know better than me that the christian groups that complain about violence in video games are not God, they're humans exactly like the ones who make violent games are human, the difference is that they do false accuses and can't mind their own business. I've been playing doom since when I was 3 and I never killed anyone, nor do I have the urge of killing someone (violence in real life in general disturbs me a lot, I actually think violence in videogames keeps real-life violence away. Plato or some of the other greek philosophies agrees with me as he once stated that *SIMULATED* violence in games (not video games obviously
) kept real life violence away in kids). I also know a lot of people who play videogames and they are normal. If someone killed a person because he wanted to do what he saw in the videogame it's not the videogame's fault but the person's, since he just was mentally too weak to play a videogame. And if it wasn't the videogame that would have made him do that, he would have did it anyway sooner or later.
So yeah, I don't know why God should be disappointed if you play a game where you have to *fight* demons. Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I know God doesn't want you to commit bad acts such as masturbating (and I'll never get what's wrong with it either, but this has nothing to do with our current subject), stealing or killing people. But if you play a game where you fight monsters or even real people you aren't killing people at all. So, what's wrong with it?
MOM4Evr wrote:To sum it all up: I'm not saying Red Alert is bad, and I'm not saying Doom is bad. It may very well be that if I went back and played Red Alert, I'd decide that I was overreacting before, or I may still feel the same way. As per other "religious" people playing "gory" games and feeling "fine" about it, yes, I understand your point. (My uncle, who introduced me to Red Alert, is a chaplain in the army)
However earlier you stated that "95% of the games aren't fun because they aren't clean" so that got me to assume you meant most games were automatically bad because they had blood. Thanks for clearing this one up I guess.
MOM4Evr wrote:However, I answer to God, not to other Christians.
Again, my above question still applies here. I'm not sure if the bible even says anything about games (not necessarily video games) with simulated violence. I think they really don't care. The anti-gore stuff was, as I said, brought up by christian and family groups who are stupid and have nothing to do in their sorry lives. Instead of complaining about every thing on earth they could maybe get a good game of Doom going and I'm sure they wouldn't criticize it anymore
I think some people in this planet are confusing first person shooters with the roman colosseum tournaments. Both are games, but in the former you don't actually kill people, while in the latter you do.
MOM4Evr wrote:The long and short is that I'd have to play these games myself to get an opinion about it. You say Doom's artwork and music don't lend themselves to being dark, demonic, and scary. Ok. I might play Doom now to see, I might not.
Nobody is forcing you to play anything. If you don't want to play Doom, fine. If you want, good. But please don't go saying that "95% of the games aren't fun" because they have blood and partially/fully naked women (what's wrong with being naked anyway? Most of those ancient statues feature naked men and women and they are considered masterpieces, so why do people get all that pissed about a naked woman on a game? there is a difference between naked and porn. I don't mind naked people in games as long as they aren't doing anything "heh", at which point I understand it might get on some people's nerves. Still there's got to be a good reason why naked people are there has having them just for lulz is kinda silly.) because it isn't true. I also still don't see how Doom can be considered immoral as it doesn't lead people to do bad acts (the game never says you are supposed to go people in real life, the game only says that *IN THE GAME* you must stop the monsters before they kill humanity).
Doom 2 definitely isn't scary and demonic. Doom 1 might be a little on a few levels though (mostly episode 2).
lemm wrote:I also think this topic was better as a 20-years-of-keen celebration rather than a gaming discussion