Release date for RAGE

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Galaxieretter
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Release date for RAGE

Post by Galaxieretter » Sat Aug 20, 2011 17:26

October 4th, 2011.

RAGE!


:x :x :x :x :x :x


ABOUT-TIME!

Who's getting it? You all know me, if iD Software would garg in a bag, and sell it, I would still buy it.
But it's iD Software, they never garg in a bag, they only garg all over the rest of the computer-gaming industry.

Anyone? What say you? Care, don't care, it's iD Software's new game!
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Post by Paramultart » Sat Aug 20, 2011 18:42

When I first found out that Carmack coded a new engine from scratch (in one night) in 2007, I was initially very excited. Then I saw screen shots and saw the setting, and was immediately disappointed.

After seeing recent videos and whatnot though, I can definitely say I am looking forward to this title.

I probably won't be buying any games any time soon, but I will definitely play it when I have the chance.
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Post by VikingBoyBilly » Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:41

John Carmack (and >200 of his umpa loompahs) was involved. Tom Hall and John Romero wasn't. It doesn't have music from Bobby Prince, and Adrian Carmack was fucled over by John Carmack so it doesn't have his art.

/thread.
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Post by Galaxieretter » Sun Aug 21, 2011 13:55

I really don't care WHO works on the games, that stuff is always overrated. More often than not, I believe computer and video games are stunted because the developers always bring the same people on the project because their fanboys demand it, instead of companies bringing on "new blood," if you will, and coming from a completely new direction for a computer game.

Robert Prince is honestly a sucky composer, he just made some good songs for early 90's computer games. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of his work, Commander Keen being among his best, but otherwise, he sucks. (The "Boss" theme - Major Stryker.)
He was good at doing what he did, and that was being one of the first people to make midis in the early 90's for computer games, and working with memory limitations, but with songs today being able to use, virtually limitless amounts of memory and with new programs and repeaters for mixing actual audio tracks, I don't think Mr. Prince could compete. Take for example, that one audio track he released for Doom 3, saying "if I would have been asked to make a theme song track for Doom 3, this is what it would be" (anyone remember that? Anyone have a copy?) as compared to the actual Tool song...
It's an unfair contest to be honest.

And I'm sorry, what do you expect, Adrian Carmack to draw each and every texture by himself? Even if he was still at iD Software, it's not like there aren't better texture artists out there in the world, and at this point, with the amount of funding and money iD Software has and probably pays their people, they most likely hired ultra-professionals for the company. While Adrian Carmack is good, I don't know if he has what it takes for the next generation of ultra-art which is going into computer games these days. (Most of them.)
I don't know, though, as I have not seen any of his newer art, so I could be wrong with the previous paragraph.
Regardless, there is no way he could have made all the 3D models, textures and the like for the game.

Tom Hall is too sick to work on another game, as far as I can see, aside from the fact that he would have injected Rage full of noobery. Even given a chance to do another Commander Keen game, I don't know if he would at this point. People get old, and Carmack gets old with everyone else, hopefully he'll stick around for Quake 5 and Doom 4, but I think Tom Hall's done.

To be honest, programmers and the artists make the game, and with Carmack's work, he makes REALLY good Open GL rendering engines, better than many gaming corporations' DX 10 engines. The only engine I would say looks better than Wolfenstein (2009) would be Metro 2033, and that was DX 11, yet, for the amount of processing power that Metro 2033 took over Wolfenstein, and the amount of power (electricity) that is between them both, iD Software's Open GL engine is vastly superior in efficiency of its filters and lighting. Perhaps Crysis 2 has an engine which rivals Wolfenstein but that's the only one I know of, and that came what, 2 years later?

Yeah, I liked the 90's iD Software as much as the next, but I could care less about who "screwed over" who, so long as they make good games, which Rage is going to be.

In other words, those people did good at what they did in the 90's, but they are no longer at the head of their field, unlike John Carmack, who is the best graphics engine programmer in the industry.
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Post by Roobar » Sun Aug 21, 2011 14:47

How about a cup of RAGE? Galaxieretter is a bit extreme at his points, but I agree with the most of what he says. Nevertheless the game will be awesome and I'm looking forward to it. The only concern though is that I might need a new video card.

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Post by RoboBlue » Sun Aug 21, 2011 16:05

To be fair (and balance out GR's depressing statements), there seem to be fewer fun games today than there were in the 90s. Bioshock looked/sounded fantastic, and the plot was really intriguing, but the gameplay bored me in minutes.
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Post by VikingBoyBilly » Sun Aug 21, 2011 16:12

Although I agree with all of galaxie's arguments (Kevin Schilder was a much better Midi composer during the mid-90's period imo), I firmly stand in my position and I won't budge. Yeah, you can call me closed minded, because I'm not even going to give it a chance. People these days mistakingly believe closed-mindedness has 100% bad connotations, but I think it can come from a certain amount of wisdom and experiences and it can be moderated and mitigated to only a few things and you can still be open to a lot of other things. I went on a tangent there, but to get to the point, I just have no interest in rage and the experience of Doom 3 and everything I learned about John Carmack has led my pre-conceived judgement that I wouldn't enjoy it.

Maybe he's a changed man, and is actually a human being and not at all like I demonize him out to be, but what he's already done has made me decide to never forgive him even if he completely turns around. It's sad and bitter, yeah, but that's my extremely opinionated fanboy perspective.

And when more than a couple handfuls of people work on a project, the wide range of views, personalities, and talents can be all over the spectrum, and it's nowhere near as likely that all of them would care passionately about the project as much as 5 guys making a cute little DOS sidescroller would.

But probably, I'm just growing up. This generation of gaming is ahead of my time and I'm just not a little kid who's obsessed with the newest video games anymore.
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Post by Roobar » Sun Aug 21, 2011 18:54

Yes, it's time to change your name to VikingMenBill and become a true Viking!!

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Post by Flaose » Mon Aug 22, 2011 15:39

More like VikingManWilliam, but I digress.

John Carmack is an excellent programmer, Rage will be nothing if not technically very impressive and groundbreaking (especially when it comes to lighting). Hopefully it's fun too.

As for having "the originals" working on it, I'm with Galaxieretter. People get older, tastes and abilities change. I wouldn't get too hung up on who's working at id and who isn't.
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Post by Paramultart » Mon Aug 22, 2011 16:33

Galaxieretter wrote:I really don't care WHO works on the games, that stuff is always overrated. More often than not, I believe computer and video games are stunted because the developers always bring the same people on the project because their fanboys demand it, instead of companies bringing on "new blood," if you will, and coming from a completely new direction for a computer game.

Robert Prince is honestly a sucky composer, he just made some good songs for early 90's computer games. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of his work, Commander Keen being among his best, but otherwise, he sucks. (The "Boss" theme - Major Stryker.)
He was good at doing what he did, and that was being one of the first people to make midis in the early 90's for computer games, and working with memory limitations, but with songs today being able to use, virtually limitless amounts of memory and with new programs and repeaters for mixing actual audio tracks, I don't think Mr. Prince could compete. Take for example, that one audio track he released for Doom 3, saying "if I would have been asked to make a theme song track for Doom 3, this is what it would be" (anyone remember that? Anyone have a copy?) as compared to the actual Tool song...
It's an unfair contest to be honest.

And I'm sorry, what do you expect, Adrian Carmack to draw each and every texture by himself? Even if he was still at iD Software, it's not like there aren't better texture artists out there in the world, and at this point, with the amount of funding and money iD Software has and probably pays their people, they most likely hired ultra-professionals for the company. While Adrian Carmack is good, I don't know if he has what it takes for the next generation of ultra-art which is going into computer games these days. (Most of them.)
I don't know, though, as I have not seen any of his newer art, so I could be wrong with the previous paragraph.
Regardless, there is no way he could have made all the 3D models, textures and the like for the game.

Tom Hall is too sick to work on another game, as far as I can see, aside from the fact that he would have injected Rage full of noobery. Even given a chance to do another Commander Keen game, I don't know if he would at this point. People get old, and Carmack gets old with everyone else, hopefully he'll stick around for Quake 5 and Doom 4, but I think Tom Hall's done.

To be honest, programmers and the artists make the game, and with Carmack's work, he makes REALLY good Open GL rendering engines, better than many gaming corporations' DX 10 engines. The only engine I would say looks better than Wolfenstein (2009) would be Metro 2033, and that was DX 11, yet, for the amount of processing power that Metro 2033 took over Wolfenstein, and the amount of power (electricity) that is between them both, iD Software's Open GL engine is vastly superior in efficiency of its filters and lighting. Perhaps Crysis 2 has an engine which rivals Wolfenstein but that's the only one I know of, and that came what, 2 years later?

Yeah, I liked the 90's iD Software as much as the next, but I could care less about who "screwed over" who, so long as they make good games, which Rage is going to be.

In other words, those people did good at what they did in the 90's, but they are no longer at the head of their field, unlike John Carmack, who is the best graphics engine programmer in the industry.
Wow. I never thought I could disagree with anyone more about something.
There's only one thing in your post that I agree with, and that is that John Carmack is a great programmer.

To say the rest of the team was expendable, that it's okay to screw over the very people who helped found your company, and to deny that ID's games got progressively worse as the team gradually broke apart, is unspeakably backwards and wrong.

I respect John Carmack as a programming genius, but I hate him as a person.

ID's games were amazing not only for the tech, but for the creative force behind it. Now all we get is tech, with the mentality that artists and designers are expendable, or a dime a dozen.

While it may be true that anyone can come up with ideas for a game, and artists really are a dime a dozen, it's still not the same.

Adrian Carmack is miles above any fresh-out-of-college dork that John Carmack snatched off the street. He didn't just create textures, he created immersive environments, memorable imagery, TRUE ART in video games.

Yeah, he couldn't paint every single texture by himself in RAGE (although look at the work he did in Quake... That's insane), but he should have at least been a creative consultant, or lead designer.

Don't get me wrong... RAGE looks great, and I am looking forward to it... But you shouldn't discredit the original team.

Also, did anyone notice the box of "Quayola Quayons" in the RAGE gameplay trailer? It plays an original Quake sound effect when you pick it up.

http://youtu.be/8ui6j35YDbU?t=6m50s

Also, "Pinkies" instead of Twinkies.
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Post by VikingBoyBilly » Mon Aug 22, 2011 19:48

Now I know how John Carmack built the engine in one night. It's Doom 3 with space for more polygons in the models. Just to be expected, it's linear and brimming with cutscene dialogue in a game that has no story to justify so much talking. Does Carmack know his target audience are the mid 20 yr olds playing skulltag, NOT the curse-spewing 13 year olds that never get tired of halo? Garg-darn it, carmack, why?

But just look at the comments. Those idiots are eating this garg up. There's no hope left for the future of games.
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Post by Dynamo » Mon Aug 22, 2011 22:17

Galaxieretter speaks the truth here, folks. He pretty much sums up my opinion but there's a few more things I'd like to state:
VikingBoyBilly wrote:Maybe he's a changed man, and is actually a human being and not at all like I demonize him out to be, but what he's already done has made me decide to never forgive him even if he completely turns around. It's sad and bitter, yeah, but that's my extremely opinionated fanboy perspective.
First off, Carmack said that looking back at how Doom 3 was, he would have done differently if he had the chance to make Doom 3 again. And from what it looks like, Doom 4 is going to be more similar to the first two games.

And besides... How can you blame him? During that time the trend was of HL-styled shooters. Doom 3 is pretty much a reskinned Half life with demons (that barely look like demons anyway). Really, even the setting (an experiment goes wrong) is just the same thing. Back then, that was the stuff the video game community wanted, and thats' what Carmack gave them.

Sure, I don't like Doom 3 at all, but it was a good move on Carmack's side. But it is a move that should not be repeated again.
VikingBoyBilly wrote:And when more than a couple handfuls of people work on a project, the wide range of views, personalities, and talents can be all over the spectrum, and it's nowhere near as likely that all of them would care passionately about the project as much as 5 guys making a cute little DOS sidescroller would.
This is purely an individual case. There's games that were made by very small companies and they are really bad. Commander Keen sounds more like an exception than an actual standard.
VikingBoyBilly wrote:But probably, I'm just growing up. This generation of gaming is ahead of my time and I'm just not a little kid who's obsessed with the newest video games anymore.
No. You're just a fan obsessed by nostalgia who can't let go of his past and this influences your dislike for "modern" games. Sure, I hate slow paced games but it doesn't mean games should be made just the way they were being made back in the 90s. Society, people, everything, including games, are destined for change. We must move forward and we must have change.

And change means the evolutionary line that exists between Doom, Duke Nukem 3D and Painkiller. I'm not talking about any Call of Duty garg. Those barely count as games.





@Paramultart: your point is only partially true. While Doom 3 sucked (but I already explained why), your "the games got progressively worse" statement sounds like you're saying Quake 3 is a terrible game.

However ID did not make many games to begin with. They licensed the engines and we got masterpieces such as Strife but ID wasn't really behind the production of that game. And lately, Raven Software is basically making the games for ID: Quake 4, Wolfenstein... All were made with the assistance of Raven. Sure, ID is a small team, but I hope Rage will make them get the FPS throne back.
Paramultart wrote:
Scarlet wrote: Ckeen, that is just your opinion.
You can't tell CKeen that. He is always right.

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Post by VikingBoyBilly » Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:06

CKeen wrote:@Paramultart: your point is only partially true. While Doom 3 sucked (but I already explained why), your "the games got progressively worse" statement sounds like you're saying Quake 3 is a terrible game.
are you saying you like quake 3 more than quake 2? But I have gotten more enjoyment out of Quake 2 than Quake 1.
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Post by Dynamo » Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:37

VikingBoyBilly wrote:
CKeen wrote:@Paramultart: your point is only partially true. While Doom 3 sucked (but I already explained why), your "the games got progressively worse" statement sounds like you're saying Quake 3 is a terrible game.
are you saying you like quake 3 more than quake 2? But I have gotten more enjoyment out of Quake 2 than Quake 1.
No, I'm saying Doom 3 is the only bad modern ID-only game, and Quake 3 is much better than Wolfenstein 3d, etc.
Paramultart wrote:
Scarlet wrote: Ckeen, that is just your opinion.
You can't tell CKeen that. He is always right.

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Post by VikingBoyBilly » Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:11

I think Doom 3 could have been good, with the engine and features it had, if the maps were just designed in a way that wasn't so linear. I understand they had to put visportals in the doors to only render a room in a map when the player sees it, but I don't think that was a huge obstacle in making multiple pathways that was at least longer than one small hallway or just a door to an office room where the PDA (as in the key to the next area) is just a few feet away from the place you need to use it, and the thing that consumes your time in getting it is the demons spawning in the area.
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