[Update] Hocus Pocus Level editor v1.2

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Roobar
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Post by Roobar »

OK I've done that and it shows me this:

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Post by Hisymak »

That's perfectly okay. Let the program close and launch Hocus Pocus.
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Post by Roobar »

Alright. Thanks.

Coming to think of, isn't it strange that after more than 20 years from the release of Doom and Hocus Pocus, we now play Hocus Pocus Doom mod and Doom Hocus Pokus mod? Who would have thought of this back then? Crazy...

And as for the modding. I like how well documented you are making everything, and I'm tempted to make something, but dealing with palettes is a nightmare for me. I've tried dealing with palettes in the past and I don't want to deal with that again (that's also the reason why I'm not making tiles or modding for Jazz Jackrabbit 2 for example). Some people here are into such limitations, but not me. Sorry. So that's that.
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Roobar
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Re: [Update] Hocus Pocus Level editor v1.2

Post by Roobar »

I don't know from how long Hocus Pocus Beta is out, but just reporting that the editor opens the levels there as well:

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There are some interesting changes.

You can download the Hocus Pocus beta from here: https://archive.org/details/HocusPocusBeta
You can download v1.2 of the editor from here: https://moddingwiki.shikadi.net/wiki/HocusEditor
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Re: [Update] Hocus Pocus Level editor v1.2

Post by Frenkel »

Roobar wrote: Mon Jan 09, 2023 18:53 I don't know from how long Hocus Pocus Beta is out
At least since 2004 on Lon Matero's Secret Beta Page.
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Re: [Update] Hocus Pocus Level editor v1.2

Post by Hisymak »

Roobar wrote: Mon Jan 09, 2023 18:53 I don't know from how long Hocus Pocus Beta is out, but just reporting that the editor opens the levels there as well:
Yes, I explicitly added support for the beta version, as some other person (I don't remember who) gave it to me and I was happy to finally have it. It has some flaws which were fortunately mitigated in the final release version.
The editor is, however, still missing support for full version 1.0. I only had version 1.1 and did not know where to get 1.0 from. Hopefully this is not a big deal, as almost everyone is probably using 1.1 version anyway.
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Re: [Update] Hocus Pocus Level editor v1.2

Post by Roobar »

do you know what these errors mean:

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Re: [Update] Hocus Pocus Level editor v1.2

Post by Hisymak »

This means he is trying to use editor on unsupported game version.
As I said, the full 1.0 version is not supported, because I did not have it on hand when developing the editor. Not sure which version he is actually having, whether it's 1.0 full, or some yet other version, which is not known.
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Re: [Update] Hocus Pocus Level editor v1.2

Post by Roobar »

Trying the beta
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Re: [Update] Hocus Pocus Level editor v1.2

Post by Hisymak »

Roobar wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:52Trying the beta
Then please check two things:
1. Whether there's a file called "beta.ini" inside the "Config" folder which is shipped with the editor, and whether there's a line starting "beta" in "versions.ini" file
2. Whether the hocus.exe file of the beta version he is using has exactly the same size as yours (the size that is mentioned inside versions.ini file, 218096 bytes)
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Re: [Update] Hocus Pocus Level editor v1.2

Post by Roobar »

So turns out he was missing the config folder. Thanks for the support! 😀
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Re: [Update] Hocus Pocus Level editor v1.2

Post by DoomJedi »

Hope people are aware of the wonderful "Hocus Pocus" Doom mod.
Editable as well :)
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Re: [Update] Hocus Pocus Level editor v1.2

Post by Hisymak »

Roobar wrote: Thu Jan 12, 2023 16:30 So turns out he was missing the config folder. Thanks for the support! 😀
So are you or your friend trying to make anything with the editor, or just looking around and examining existing levels?
I'd like to see some creations or at least some experiments from you!
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Re: [Update] Hocus Pocus Level editor v1.2

Post by Roobar »

Look, I was just looking. For me, it's a love-hate relationship with this game. I love to play it, but I don't like the limitations. Limitations like you can't place crystals or columns in the sky. There's not much variety in a single tileset to work with either. The editor is full featured, but I'm used to different type of control schemes. My favorite editor is the one in SAHD (and CCHD) which is a joy to use. I like to right click to select and copy a tile/tiles instead of deleting them. I use middle mouse button and wasd to move the camera. I'd like to have some zoom-in/out with mousewheel or some keys. I also like to visually see all the objects as they would appear in the game, not some rectangles. Maybe Apogee will make an HD overhaul of Hocus Pocus as well. I imagine it will be with some new enemies, tilesets, steam workshop and will remove those limitations. It will be interesting. Who knows.
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Re: [Update] Hocus Pocus Level editor v1.2

Post by Hisymak »

Roobar wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 19:30 Look, I was just looking. For me, it's a love-hate relationship with this game. I love to play it, but I don't like the limitations. Limitations like you can't place crystals or columns in the sky. There's not much variety in a single tileset to work with either.
I basically agree with you. From a programmer's point of view, I find this game to be rather simplistic with not very many features and with many limitations and big lack of flexibility. The big problem you are referring to is, that items (crystals, points...) are not sprites, but are tiles, so the background tile is part of the item's image and that greatly limits you where you can place them. There is also big limitation of amount of graphics that can be used in a level, limiting number of tiles in a tileset and monster types.
Roobar wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 19:30 The editor is full featured, but I'm used to different type of control schemes. My favorite editor is the one in SAHD (and CCHD) which is a joy to use. I like to right click to select and copy a tile/tiles instead of deleting them. I use middle mouse button and wasd to move the camera.
Well, I suppose that everyone is used to his own control sheme and mindset when using such game's level editors. I think that the editor a person used at first or for most of time teaches them some habits and it can be hard to adapt to something else.
I was trying to do the best regarding the game's mechanics and technical principles, like three tile layers (background, foreground, hidden) and the fact that a cell can have empty tile in specific layer and you can see a backdrop image through it. Therefore I found it very important to be able to easily erase a tile with one of the three available mouse buttons. The left button is used for painting a tile, right button for erasing a tile, and middle button for copying an existing tile from map. There's no more mouse button left for functions like copying area or moving map, so they are possible with different key+mouse combinations.
Furthermore, there are three editing modes: Tile mode, Pattern mode and Block mode. Pattern mode is something specific and probably unique to Hocus Pocus game - as you see, many Hocus levels are designed with repeating decorative patterns, so I created editing mode to support this and make it easy to draw. Now I see it has some flaws related to pattern rotation (like when you select a pattern from map, it appears as shuffled on preview image which can be confusing and inconvenient) and I was thinking to improve this.
And as there are three editing modes and multiple layers to work with, I needed to come up with different appropriate controls for every different mode, and it is basically not easy to make it that it fits everyone (but there can still be improvements based on other user's ideas). I don't know technical details of SA and CC games and how many layers they have, but I find those games to be simpler in regards to level editing. If there's nothing like "empty tile" in a layer, then you don't need a button to erase tiles. If there's no need for a Pattern mode, then everything's simpler too and probably you don't even need different "editing modes".
Roobar wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 19:30 I'd like to have some zoom-in/out with mousewheel or some keys.
Unfortunately, zoom-in/out feature is unfeasible to implement due to technical/design reasons. One of the reasons is, that I draw various markers (like rectangles on tiles which are part of some level action, or markers on special objects like items, switches etc) containing text in them. As a compensation to missing zoom-in/out feature, there's a minimap, a schematic view of the whole level, so you can always see the whole level and position of your current view. I think the minimap feature is rather uncommon in level editors and it's something unique to my editor. On a FullHD monitor you can see quite big portion of map, so I just thought it's still feasible to use without zoom-out.
Roobar wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 19:30 I also like to visually see all the objects as they would appear in the game, not some rectangles.
It is possible to show monster sprites, you probably just missed this feature, which is off by default. Below the minimap there are several buttons to toggle specific layers to be shown or not, and one button shows also the sprites. Try it out.

But thanks for your feedback! It's always nice to see other person's view. I was hoping someone would try to make some levels for the game, but it's probably so many limitations, complexity and inconvenience in terms of level editing, and lack of interest and fan base for this game. I'm still happy to discuss about it and see that someone at least uses the program for viewing the levels.
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