Least favorite Keen game?

Here, you can get help with anything or just chat about the original Commander Keen games.
Post Reply

What's your least favorite Keen game?

Keen 1
3
7%
Keen 2
8
19%
Keen 3
16
38%
Keen 4
2
5%
Keen 5
1
2%
Keen 6
0
No votes
Keen Dreams
12
29%
 
Total votes: 42

User avatar
Quillax
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 554
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 14:41
Location: Quillax Ship
Contact:

Least favorite Keen game?

Post by Quillax »

Since I just created a "Favorite Keen game" poll, I decided to make a "least favorite" poll to go along with it! Besides, it seems that the closet we ever had something like this before is an old topic from 2009, which didn't have a poll anyway. So this should be really interesting!

Which Keen game is your least favorite, and why? I left out Keen GBC in the poll, because I figured that it wouldn't be a contest otherwise. You can pick up to three in the poll.
Last edited by Quillax on Thu Feb 10, 2022 5:19, edited 1 time in total.
Quillax Ship - Where you can download all of my cool, keen mods and super-marvelous fangames!
User avatar
Pandakeen
Vortininja
Posts: 160
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:54
Location: pckf,
Contact:

Re: Least favorite Keen game?

Post by Pandakeen »

Hard to say, because the Keen games are like my childrens. I love all of them. But if I had to pick least favorite, it'd probably be Keen 3, because of how rushed it is.
User avatar
StupidBunny
format c:
Posts: 2155
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 19:19
Location: The Centre of the Moon
Contact:

Re: Least favorite Keen game?

Post by StupidBunny »

Keen Dreams, easily.

The concept of fighting evil vegetables is cute, I suppose, and I do like some of the creative choices and design decisions, and certain levels are pretty cool (I've always liked Grape Grove). But the environments and visuals, to me, lack the vibrance and uniqueness that the other episodes have. So much feels rather flat and barren, and thematically doesn't have the weird creative idiosyncratic mixture of the futuristic and primitive, familiar and alien that a lot of the other games have. The gray, generically medieval design of Castle Tuberia feels so anonymous to me. The enemy balancing also feels off in some way. Mostly though I think Dreams has the worst control in the series, and I perpetually feel like Keen is slow and clunky and that his flower grenades aren't gonna hit anything 60% of the time. Part of this is lack of practice, I'm sure, but the grenades also lack the direct, immediate simplicity of simply shooting in the direction you want to. The lack of ledge grabbing doesn't work well with Keen's slow moon jumps, and the larger sprite sizes mean there's a lot more occasions that I really wish I could look up and down. Vorticons controls are simple, simpler in many ways than Dreams (you can't shoot up or down, e.g.), but Keen moves faster and more of the level is visible at a time; and I don't know how I didn't think of this until now, but you have a pogo in Vorticons. Given how much of the Keen experience is fluid control, this is probably the main point against the game for me.

It's not that I think Dreams is bad, as such--it's a decent proof of concept for a proto-Galaxy engine, and I admire them for trying something new with the weird Flower Power thing. But, well, if we're asking which my least favorite is, then Dreams is up against too stiff of competition to measure up.
Image
User avatar
Soul Monster
Vortininja
Posts: 223
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:47
Location: An Arctic Hellscape

Re: Least favorite Keen game?

Post by Soul Monster »

My least favorite is Keen 3.

That's not to say I don't enjoy the game, but you can tell that they didn't put as much time into this one. There's still a lot to like about his one, from the story, to the visuals, the enemies, and even some levels. The 2 biggest problems I have with this game are the unfair challenge in many of the stages, and the large number of glitches.

To this day, I have never been able to play through Keen 3 without using cheat codes. I try to minimize my use of GOD mode, but being a completionist, there's a lot of items that seem to be impossible to obtain without using cheats, and there's some stages like Fort Vorta Bella and Cape Canavorta that just throw so much at you that the difficulty becomes very cheap. I think this problem could easily be resolved by adding more ankh powers to some stages, and having their effects last longer. Also, I just realized something, Keen knows the Vorticons aren't evil, so you'd imagine that he'd try to avoid killing them when possible, yet there's so many times in the game where you have no choice. Wouldn't this be a neat work around for that? I mean, there's a lot of stages in the game that either throw a bunch of enemies and traps at you at once, or just go on forever.

As for the glitches, it always irritates me when there's stages where there's inaccessible goodies lying around. Hal's Kitchen is the worst offender of this, as the entire top half of the stage is completely inaccessible without cheating. Also in Fort Vorticon I often find myself caught in an unwinnable situation where the ball in the bottom right of the stage gets stuck in the passage to the exit, forcing me to restart the entire stage over again.

Again, I'm not saying it's bad, it's just unpolished. It is a great game to end the first trilogy, but they just needed to spend more time on it to perfect its flaws.
User avatar
The Shifted One
Grunt
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 21:25
Location: Kingdom Come

Re: Least favorite Keen game?

Post by The Shifted One »

This was a difficult choice between Keen 3 and Keen Dreams but I went with Keen Dreams.

It's the only game in the series I've only played through once and cannot find myself going through again.
I've started on multiple occasions but for reason its never been able to keep my attention for too long.
If I compare it too Keen 3 then Dreams is better in almost all aspects but for some reason Keen 3 still feels more playable and interesting.
Even with all its flaws Keen 3 is still more interesting and fun overall.

That's not to say Dreams is a bad game, its just mediocre; which in the Keen series makes it almost seem bad ;)
Existence is futile!
User avatar
Nospike
Keen Minecrafter
Posts: 1402
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 13:56
Location: Czech Republic

Re: Least favorite Keen game?

Post by Nospike »

Since saying Keen GBC would be cheating, I have to give this to Keen 1.

Not that it's a bad game by any means. But the bland artstyle personally doesn't really speak to me, Vorticons gameplay I think is objectively somewhat inferior to Galaxy, and I have no special connection to Keen 1 by virtue of it having been my first Keen game or anything similar, like it is for many of you guys.

Out of all the Keen games it feels the least immersive. I definitely understand why some Keeners appreciate it for its minimalism. Personally I'm into more lively, colorful, natural-looking environments, as evidenced by my own modding efforts in Botafloria. (And counter-evidenced by those in Mura, I guess that's the exception that makes the rule. :p )

It's mainly for this reason that I've always actually kinda liked Keen Dreams and Keen 3.
Hisymak
Vortininja
Posts: 112
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 20:13

Re: Least favorite Keen game?

Post by Hisymak »

If I look back into my childhood, I would say, that my least favourite Keen game was Keen 2.
Keen2 was the game that I was the most afraid of and felt extremely hard to me. Overally the environment and levels felt rather inhospitable and were full of hazards and dangerous robots. Vorticon Elites were lethal as hell and always killed me with their gun. I had no idea about what was the objective - I always pulled the lever which caused earth destruction and game over. Therefore I was not able to complete most of levels. I still enjoyed some of the easier levels and liked playing around with those small red walking robots or moving platforms.
When I take Keen3 for comparison, I liked it better because those Vorticon house interior levels felt much more cosy and colourful than chilling places of the Vorticon Mothership. Also, in Keen3 half of the levels were easy while the other half was very hard, but I still enjoyed those easier levels and liked this game overally. Now I know it's full of bugs and unbalanced difficulty, but back then as a child I sensed it differently.
User avatar
XkyRauh
Mortimer's RightHand Man
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 16:32
Location: San Diego, California

Re: Least favorite Keen game?

Post by XkyRauh »

Keen 1's worst element, I feel, is that the pogo stick can be missed entirely. It's technically only required to beat the final level, and it is possible to obtain a back-up pogo stick within said level, but the fact that it is possible to miss it entirely feels like the weakest part of the episode.

Keen 2's worst element, I feel, is the levels that require you to wait for long horizontal platform rides across acid baths. So much downtime and waiting...

Keen 3's worst element, I feel, is the garish pink and yellow wallpaper in the Vorticon homes. Not only are the dots misaligned and imperfect, but it's ugly!

Keen 4's worst element, I feel, is Too Hot. The levels it is used in are long to begin with, but feel even longer with the oppressive and tedious music droning on in the background. The world feels a fair bit bland to me, as well: Everything is either brown, grey, or teal, with the occasional dark blue thrown in. There is very little red in the game world, and green is almost exclusively grass or foliage. BORING!

Keen 5's worst element, I feel, is the over-use of the spinny fire sticks. I don't know why they stand out to me as such an obnoxious obstacle, but when I think of Keen 5, I think of dying to those spinny fire sticks over and over again.

Keen 6's worst element, I feel, is the 'gotcha' enemies, like the Giks, Bipships, and Ceilick. All three demand quick reactions, and make the gameplay a little bit twitchy for me. Save scumming was my friend...

All that said, I voted for Keen 4 as my least favorite episode. The levels are visually bland, the music is more annoying than pleasant, and the enemy design isn't memorable to me.
User avatar
proYorp
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 472
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:56
Location: Orbit
Contact:

Re: Least favorite Keen game?

Post by proYorp »

Wow, I'm surprised nobody has voted against Keen 6, given how many complaints I've seen about the glitches or the levels.



I'd definitely have to say my least favorite is Keen Dreams. For me, I think it's mainly the player control and physics. The game looks so much like the style of Keen Galaxy but it feels so different. No pogo, no ledge grabbing, no screen looking. It's like some kind of uncanny valley. It constantly throws me for a loop and confuses my muscle memory. (A lot of fangames have this issue too, and don't even get me started on the amount of uncanny valley going on with Commander Genius....) It just makes it very tedious to play, especially since this is the only episode with these physics so there's not really anywhere else to practice. (I liked troublesomekeen's idea to convert the game to the Galaxy engine.)
Also way back when I always played with cheats I was so annoyed that hitting the ceiling or even letting off the jump key instantly made you plummet at full speed (the gravity speed is weird here too...) even with Jump Cheat, so you can't just fly around. Then you're at the mercy of whatever may happen to be underneath you, which could easily be a bottomless pit, the bane of God Mode.

Looks like this poll is a runaway for Keen Dreams. :p At this rate it seems like it's becoming the vote drain instead of the GBC game. Though it makes more sense to exclude GBC since there might've been a lot of joke votes against it just for its reputation. :crazy


Soul Monster wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 20:53 My least favorite is Keen 3.
[...]
Also, I just realized something, Keen knows the Vorticons aren't evil, so you'd imagine that he'd try to avoid killing them when possible, yet there's so many times in the game where you have no choice.
I'm like 99% sure it's possible to beat Keen 3 without shooting any Vorticons. I think I did a full pacifist run (minus the Mangling Machine) once a few years ago.
"Friendly. Very friendly. Too friendly." Image
User avatar
Soul Monster
Vortininja
Posts: 223
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:47
Location: An Arctic Hellscape

Re: Least favorite Keen game?

Post by Soul Monster »

proYorp wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 0:48 I'm like 99% sure it's possible to beat Keen 3 without shooting any Vorticons. I think I did a full pacifist run (minus the Mangling Machine) once a few years ago.
Now that I'd like to see!
User avatar
StupidBunny
format c:
Posts: 2155
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 19:19
Location: The Centre of the Moon
Contact:

Re: Least favorite Keen game?

Post by StupidBunny »

Wow, I'm surprised nobody has voted against Keen 6, given how many complaints I've seen about the glitches or the levels.
It’s a testament to just how amazing and full of character the visual design in Keen 6 is. I think it has the weakest level design in the series outside of Keen 3 or Dreams and I still want to say it’s my favorite. :p

I don’t know, of course, but I suspect Keen 3 would be running away with things if Dreams wasn’t there. I always liked it, myself, but there are glaring level design and layout problems and the garish graphics are likely to turn off a lot of people. Maybe Keen 4 would’ve gotten a couple of those votes too, since they have a similarly earthy visual style (although executed more appealingly in Keen 4 I think.)
Image
Benvolio
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 976
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 12:43
Location: Ireland
Contact:

Re: Least favorite Keen game?

Post by Benvolio »

I think a poll with only the Vorticons, Galaxy and Aliens episodes (no dreams) might be informative sometime.

That said I would still rank Dreams above Keen3. I enjoyed Keen Dreams a lot back in the day. I guess it wasn't disappointing the way Keen3 was, relative to pre existing expectations. Obviously it remains one of the poorest Keen games for gameplay.

An interesting project sometime could be a Dreams remake done on the proper Galaxy engine.
User avatar
Quillax
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 554
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 14:41
Location: Quillax Ship
Contact:

Re: Least favorite Keen game?

Post by Quillax »

When I first started the polls, I thought of letting users select up to three options, much like in proYorp's level ranking polls. I decided not to do that because there were fewer options. However, after seeing how this poll is turning out, I just made it so that you can pick up to three games. So if you only chose one game, feel free to choose two more if you'd like! I also did the same change to the "favorite Keen game" poll. Hopefully this will be more interesting!

By the way, I'm really enjoying the discussion here! Xky Rauh's post in particular is pretty neat -- I actually think a "Least favorite part of each Keen game" thread would be very interesting. I also wonder what a Dreams remake done in the Galaxy engine would be like. Would it be Keen Dreams Plus with Galaxy physics and mechanics?

I still haven't made any selections in either poll yet. Ugh, all the Keen games are so good! Maybe I should add a "None" option to this poll and an "All" option for the other poll!!! :crazy
proYorp wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 0:48 I'm like 99% sure it's possible to beat Keen 3 without shooting any Vorticons. I think I did a full pacifist run (minus the Mangling Machine) once a few years ago.
Was it through the whole game or just the few required levels?
Quillax Ship - Where you can download all of my cool, keen mods and super-marvelous fangames!
User avatar
proYorp
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 472
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:56
Location: Orbit
Contact:

Re: Least favorite Keen game?

Post by proYorp »

Soul Monster wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 3:20
proYorp wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 0:48 I'm like 99% sure it's possible to beat Keen 3 without shooting any Vorticons. I think I did a full pacifist run (minus the Mangling Machine) once a few years ago.
Now that I'd like to see!
Quillax wrote: Thu Feb 10, 2022 5:39 Was it through the whole game or just the few required levels?
Right, so, after reading Soul Monster's comment I realized that my statement sounded like I meant the full game. Probably should have cleared that up a while ago, whoops.

To clarify, I meant "fully pacifist", as in no creatures died by my hand. I don't think it would be possible to beat all levels that way, especially since some are barely winnable with loopholes in the first place. Maybe it could be done using some crazy TAS software and RNG manipulation. But is it pacifism if you are also mind-controlling the Vorticons' AI? Hmm... :freud

The only level with Vorticons that you need to pass is Level 04 AKA "Valden Park." I wanted to record of video of this but it takes a lot of patience and/or luck so I haven't yet.
"Friendly. Very friendly. Too friendly." Image
User avatar
Snortimer
Vortininja
Posts: 267
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:04
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Least favorite Keen game?

Post by Snortimer »

3 and Dreams, for all the reasons people have mentioned. Although if we're talking just about POTENTIAL, 3 has the more interesting ideas and could've been good if only the level design had been better done. Keen 2 also had lots of scary and unfair-seeming enemies, but the level designs were done in such a way that there was always a smart way to get past them (although maybe if you play it as a kid, you don't always realize it...). You could beat every level without cheating. (I think by far the worst part of Keen 2 was the boring "world map"). In Keen 3, you often had the choice of only either skipping the hard levels entirely, or having an extremely frustrating time.

But with Dreams, the gameplay mechanics are just not that great and it couldn't have been done too much better than it was...
The only temporary stunning of enemies, the weird arc of the flower things, and to a lesser extent the lack of edge grabbing or looking up/down.

EDIT: But I haven't played Ceilick's Keen Dreams Plus mod, so I may have to eat my words on that...

Also, I'm glad that nobody picked Keen 6. :)
Member since at least 1998 with... ah... some long absences. I was even a moderator at one point. I'll probably keep coming back here and there as long as this place still exists.
Post Reply