The wise vorticon never jumps in the dark

[Vortlike]

In keen2 one of the vorticon elders says to keen "the wise vorticon never jumps in the dark. In fact, even unwise vorticons will not jump in darkness" and this is clearly a reference to or hint at the fact that grunts and vorticon elders do not jump in the dark. However the added line that it applies only or especially to wise vorticons and then immediately going back on that point and saying both unwise and wise vorticons do not jump leaves me wondering what is ment by that.

As we know vorticon youths do in fact jump even in darkness. So is this then what the vorticon elder ment by saying the specifically wise vorticons don't jump. implying the youthful vorticons have not become wise yet and therefore will still jump. However the added line even unwise vorticons will not jump could be there to specify that actually vorticons do not have to be particularly wise to refrain from jumping any fully grown vorticon will be wise enough, just not youthful vorticons.

However this is still confusing. Because it is clearly stated that even unwise vorticons do not jump. If the youthful vorticons lack wisdom due to their immaturity then how come they do not refrain from jumping in darkness anyway? And why such a contradicting confusing statement?

I wonder if it is somehow related to the second vorticon elder asking keen to not kill vorticons. because keen faces a moral dilemma of facing the need to kill (innocent) vorticons for the sake of completing his mission. However due to his immaturity, because he is a youth himself he may lack the required (moral) insight to see the importance of avoiding vorticon casualties. the wise way to proceed then is to utilize the light switches to evade the majority of vorticon encounters in order to minimize both risk to himself as well as minimize vorticon casualties.

I know this theory might be a bit of a leap.

It might also be that vorticon youths are not in fact under mind control. and this might be why they are also not affected by darkness in the same way. I mean think about it, in keen 3 the vorticon youth are being taught to "kill keen". however what is the need to indoctrinate them if they are already under complete mindcontrol anyway via the mind-belts?

This would however completely contradict the statement about it being wisdom preventing the vorticons from jumping when in fact it is mindcontrol that is inhibiting them from jumping in the dark.

This makes you wonder who are the vorticon elders anyway and how did they get there? After all wasn't the vorticon mothership probably contructed specifically to destroy earth or more specifically to threathen to destroy earth possibly as a way to attract keen. because after all if the goal was really to destroy earth they could have done so already. unless somehow the mindcontrol is not fully enabled and for some reason the grand intellect cannot make any of the vorticons pull the switch and fire yet.


Anyway the vorticon elders must have somehow resisted falling under the influence of the grand intellect and must have strategically placed themselves there in the hope to talk to keen and the grandintellect cannot find them because his control over the other vorticons is not 100% otherwise the elders would be found and removed.

So it is possible that the vorticon elder is simply lying about the fact that they are not jumping having anything to do with wisdom. He is simply giving this information to keen for him to use and not bothering giving too much explanation. in the knowledge that this information will make it likely that keen can succeed with fewer vorticon casualties.

[K1n9_Duk3]

I think this will ultimately boil down to a question of semantics: Is "unwise" the same as "not wise" or is there something in between that is neither wise nor unwise?

Or maybe the devs just forgot to implement this behavior for the Youths. Maybe they were initially supposed to be a Keen 3 enemy and got added into Keen 2 after the Elder texts were written?

[Quillax]

I never thought about how the Vorticon Youths jump in the dark despite the Elder's message. Maybe when the Elder said "Vorticons", he means "Vorticon men", or "Vorticon adults" (though, Vortimoms never jump at all)? Maybe the Youths just haven't developed the mental ability to tell wise from unwise yet. K1n9_Duk3 also presents a good theory about Youths being ported from Keen 3 to Keen 2. I wonder if any evidence for that can be found in the game code (e.g. the Keen 2 Youths have something not present in the Keen 3 Youths).

I've sometimes wondered why there are elderly Vorticons hanging out in the Vorticon Mothership and how they avoided mind control. They are kept in glass cases, suggesting that they've been imprisoned, but what's the purpose of leaving them in the mothership and not the brig in Cape Canavorta? Maybe they were servants in the mothership, where they realized what's going on and retaliated against the plan to destroy Earth, which caused the other Vorticons to lock them up and maybe even strip them down in case they had pockets to hide stuff in. Maybe they were mind controlled and the effect somehow wore off (mind belts got ruined by accident?), or Mortimer thought they'd be too senile to notice how awful things are going. One may wonder why they didn't just kill the Elders for retaliation, but maybe it's that even with mind control, the Vorticons still have some humanity in them? They seem to be chilling around and having fun in the Home levels in Keen 2, and they still spend time with family in Keen 3.

[Nospike]

Vortikids are little children so they aren't wise and they ignore what the elder says.
Makes pretty good sense to me, I've never thought to question the wording of this message, tbh. This can even be used for gameplay purposes when designing levels, like in some kind of platforming section where you turn off the lights to get the big vorticons out of the way, but the vortikids remain a danger. I think there even is a place like that in some Keen 2 level. So I'd say it's intentional.

[Vortlike]

I think this will ultimately boil down to a question of semantics: Is "unwise" the same as "not wise" or is there something in between that is neither wise nor unwise?

I don't know it seems pretty clear. both wise and unwise so that should basically mean all vorticons.

Or maybe the devs just forgot to implement this behavior for the Youths. Maybe they were initially supposed to be a Keen 3 enemy and got added into Keen 2 after the Elder texts were written?

Yes that's very possible. it could also be that they tried to stop the youths from jumping and it didn't feel right. because without jumping they behave so predictably and mechanically. it could also cause keen to get stuck potentially forever at some points. However why didn't they change the text to address this. And it seems like the "wise" aspect is a specific reference to the vorticon youths. despite the contradiction.

Maybe the Youths just haven't developed the mental ability to tell wise from unwise yet.

I mean that was my thought exactly the only problem is that it is specified. "even unwise vorticons will not jump in darkness"

K1n9_Duk3 also presents a good theory about Youths being ported from Keen 3 to Keen 2

Yea it kind of makes sense as a possibility. because after all the youths don't make as much sense on the mothership as on the home planet. It's like they made an extra effort to make keen 2 as good as possible and borrowed from and put less effort into keen 3, which is in my opinion the least good episode of the three.

I've sometimes wondered why there are elderly Vorticons hanging out in the Vorticon Mothership and how they avoided mind control.

Maybe the stasis field is what protects them from mortimers mind control

Vortikids are little children so they aren't wise and they ignore what the elder says.

Yes, but. even unwise... it seems like it can't be a coincidence right

[DoomJedi]

Such threads and discussions are why I so deeply love this forum and this community.
This is inspiring and I just watch you from the side and admire. People like you make the world so much better for me.
And this sort of shows why Keen game brings out of us and our imagination more than any other game ever did.
Love you guys, I really do.

[Ceilick]

As for the phrase itself, it's structured as a humorous exaggeration, like "All good birds build nests. Infact, even not good birds build nests." It's just a long, 'funny' way of saying "all Vorticons".

As you point out, this elder either doesn't seem to consider Vorticon youths to be Vorticons, or he isn't wise or with-it enough to specify that only adult Vorticons don't jump.

Which leads me to wonder if the 'wisdom' of the Vorticon elders is all it's cracked up to be, or if they're simply old and not under the influence of the mindbelts for some reason.

And, as mentioned, why are they on the ship at all?

Considering that telling Keen the Vorticons are brainwashed and aren't evil will actually make Keen's mission more difficult (he'll want to avoid casualties), and telling Keen they don't jump is only mostly accurate, perhaps making them accessible to Keen was Mortimer's plan all along.

[K1n9_Duk3]

I wonder if any evidence for that can be found in the game code (e.g. the Keen 2 Youths have something not present in the Keen 3 Youths).

I did a quick check, comparing the v1.31 code of Keen 2 and 3: Keen 2 Youths can be hit/killed by other enemies, Keen 3 Youths can't. The same difference can also be observed in the v1.0 executables.

There was at least some copy and paste going on. The Grunts in Keen 3 check if the light is on before starting a jump, for example, just like their counterparts from Keen 2. The Vorticons in Keen 1 don't, despite being almost completely identical to the Grunts in 2 and 3.

I'm not intimately familiar with Keen 1-3, but I don't remember seeing any light switches in Keen 3. But I know for a fact that the light switch tiles exist in all three episodes and I also know that the code to turn the lights on and off is present in all three episodes as welll, not just in Keen 2. The code for flipping the Tantalus switches (screen shaking and the "Oops" message) is also present in all three episodes, but only Keen 2 has actual switch tiles in the tileset.

I assume that the behavior code for the enemies was stored in separate code files, each episode having its own enemy code file, and all the rest of the code was shared for the most part. For example, the high scores files for all three episodes have settings for the battery, joystick, whiskey and vacuum cleaner, the number of cities saved, and an unused sixth value (in addition to the regular score and name values, of course). I haven't seen this sixth value ever get used in Keen 1-3, so I don't know what it's for.

This is going a bit off-topic, but I vaguely remember seeing some code that counted how many Vorticons got killed over the course of the game. I thought that could be what the unused entry was for, but I can't find any evidence of that in the original executables. Maybe I saw that code in the CloneKeen source or something like that, I really don't remember.

[Vortlike]

There was at least some copy and paste going on. The Grunts in Keen 3 check if the light is on before starting a jump, for example, just like their counterparts from Keen 2. The Vorticons in Keen 1 don't, despite being almost completely identical to the Grunts in 2 and 3.

That's interesting. I didn't know the grunts in keen 3 can't jump in the dark just like in keen 2. Or maybe I did know about it at some point and I just forgot about. Pretty sure there are no light switches in the official keen 3 levels though.

he code for flipping the Tantalus switches (screen shaking and the "Oops" message) is also present in all three episodes, but only Keen 2 has actual switch tiles in the tileset.

Although you are presumably right that keen 1 and 3 have no switch tiles. You can enable it using the tile info program and patch. And they will be fully functional, meaning you can have bridges that work just as well in keen 1 and 3 mods. What is then needed to trigger the ending sequences if the tantalus sprite nearby in the correct spot.