Keen 1 levelpack: The Life Of Mars

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Vortlike
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Re: Keen 1 levelpack: The Life Of Mars

Post by Vortlike »

I think you could work on this a bit more. For example the ship parts aren't in the right level. In keen 1 if you die you lose the ship part that is normally in that level. Its not clear why they added this mechanism because the parts are always in front of the exit but if you get the part and then die you lose it again so you have to beat the level. But if you put the parts in the "wrong" level you can also lose parts that you have previously collected. There might also be a patch that changes the level number that does this. Or you'd have to rename the levels.

I also think that since this is a mod and you included all these yorp statues you really should consider adding new hints or just funny messages or something. For me just seeing the original message again fails to entertain me. And your mod does leave the player in dire need of hints (like don't attempt certain levels because they are too hard or impossible. haha sorry if I'm being mean). Right now your mod is patched but your patch file doesn't have any content. So there is no difference right now if you run the .bat or keen1.exe. So I would recommend either remove the statues or change the text even if it is something simple but new. the patchwork mod is maybe a good example really some simple messages but anything is better then just a repetition of keen 1.

I also think you should consider either redoing some levels, improving them or leaving them out entirely. Because now the quality is not consistent and the bad or less good levels can put people off from playing the better levels. Okay I am kind of assuming you actually want people to play this maybe your motive is entirely different I don't know actually. It seems that or some reason you wanted the mod to have 16 levels like the original. I can relate because I am trying to do the same thing and it does take a lot of time to get it done. But it seems to me you rushed it a bit too much and the filler content I feel takes away from the better designed levels.

some of the levels are just like the shrine levels in keen 1 but even smaller and with less to do just the statue with the same message as the original and the exit. Okay you can pass this quickly and go to the next level. Still you can remove this and it would be better. Now with a new message maybe there is at least some point to it. Other levels seem too hard and too repetitive.

The first levels where fun 1: Puzzle for Pogo and 4: Green Mars Capital.

4-Color LOL Town is also fairly fun now that it is made to be possible but I would still suggest removing the need to blind drop and make some parts easier.

But I wonder if I am missing out other good levels that you made that I didn't try because I quit after trying 8: Ice Maze. I am actually curious if you have finished this yourself. I don't want to guess that you didn't because it seems very possible so maybe you did. But I think that play testing could create some empathy for the people that play levels without cheats. Because the repetition seems really excessive and also some of it is kind of hard because you have to do something difficult but also many times in a row and making a mistake anywhere means you have to repeat all of that again.
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SodiumtheGlitcher
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Re: Keen 1 levelpack: The Life Of Mars

Post by SodiumtheGlitcher »

I intentionally moved the ship parts to different levels to make it a little more interesting. You shouldn't die after collecting one.

I didn't add new Yorp statue messages because I don't know how. All my patching skill is from KeenWiki, tutorials, and existing mods. I could try that in an update, though.

There are some levels I should redo, and I will eventually. I can't promise an update in the next 2 days, but maybe a week.

The really small shrines were there because yes, I was rushing. I'll think about improvements. The extremely difficult levels have tons of points in them, so I think it's worth the difficulty. I'll consider improvements, like mentioned before.

Yes, I have completed that level. The blue keycard can be accessed from the other side, and the green one isn't that hard to get. The red one is on the main path, but it requires precision. The yellow one is in the maze somewhere.
Put me in a room full of chlorine. Results: I die and turn into a pillar of salt and a very buggy Keen 6.

IMPOSSIBLE BULLET FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Vortlike
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Re: Keen 1 levelpack: The Life Of Mars

Post by Vortlike »

I intentionally moved the ship parts to different levels to make it a little more interesting. You shouldn't die after collecting one.
Are you serious? That is kind of cringe bro. So you didn't make loltown impossible on purpose but this is? Why would you intentionally want to have errors in your game? I know that you can save between every level and circumvent this error. But it is still a pretty big bug so I would fix it eventually
I didn't add new Yorp statue messages because I don't know how. All my patching skill is from KeenWiki, tutorials, and existing mods. I could try that in an update, though.
from what I remember it isn't very hard. But I'm not sure right now how easily this info is available currently
The extremely difficult levels have tons of points in them, so I think it's worth the difficulty. I'll consider improvements, like mentioned before.
I haven't tried all these levels. I am not saying I hate it. If it is clear it is just very hard the player can decide to go to another level. Like level 9: Hard Shrine. seems like a fun concept. I don't think I'm personally going to attempt this but it is a fun idea that it's there as an optional challenge. By the way right now you start on the exit so you can't really play it.

I think I do want to try if I can manage the jump between the fire and the green danger above it once at some point. but I would edit to have keen begin next to it otherwise it looks way too hard for me
Yes, I have completed that level. The blue keycard can be accessed from the other side, and the green one isn't that hard to get. The red one is on the main path, but it requires precision. The yellow one is in the maze somewhere.
It is probably doable for me too, I just stopped trying because it wasn't very fun. Like getting the green card isn't hard but is simply a chore. Getting the red key is an alright puzzle though. I'd keep that in for example. I see the the hardest part is actually optional but this isn't known in advange for the player so you are still more or less forced to explore it at first.
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Quillax
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Re: Keen 1 levelpack: The Life Of Mars

Post by Quillax »

SodiumtheGlitcher wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 15:04 I intentionally moved the ship parts to different levels to make it a little more interesting. You shouldn't die after collecting one.
What Vortlike is saying is that if you take a ship part and then die in a level that originally had that ship part, you'll lose it even if you obtained it in a different level (e.g. if you die in level 3 you lose the battery). I've had this happen to me in many Keen 1 mods, and sometimes I don't notice it until it's too late. Renaming the levels files so that the numbers match with the original levels that have the respective ship parts is one solution, otherwise you can use this patch (change values $0004W, $0003W, etc.):

Code: Select all

#Parts levels (Part removed if you die in this level)
%patch $4F69 $0004W $74 #Joystick
%patch $4F70 $0003W $74 #Battery
%patch $4F75 $0008W $74 #Vacuum
%patch $4F7C $0010W $74 #Whiskey
Alternatively, if you'd rather eliminate this mechanic completely, try this patch instead (I used it in ROM1 and The Morticore and it worked perfectly):

Code: Select all

#Keen won't lose the ship parts if he dies in a level
%patch $4F82 $90 $90 $90 $90 $90 $90 #Joystick
%patch $4F8A $90 $90 $90 $90 $90 $90 #Battery
%patch $4F92 $90 $90 $90 $90 $90 $90 #Vacum
%patch $4F9A $90 $90 $90 $90 $90 $90 #everclear
SodiumtheGlitcher wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 15:04 I didn't add new Yorp statue messages because I don't know how. All my patching skill is from KeenWiki, tutorials, and existing mods. I could try that in an update, though.
I recommended checking out The Neural Stunner. It's a fantastic patching aid that has served me very well ever since 2011. It's so intuitive and user-friendly, and has made patching quite a breeze. Startext might also be a good option; according to the KeenWiki article it can make a Yorp statue message for every level, though I'm not sure how that works. I've never really used Startext that much.
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SodiumtheGlitcher
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Re: Keen 1 levelpack: The Life Of Mars

Post by SodiumtheGlitcher »

Version 1.2 is out! The link in the first post has been updated!
Quillax wrote:
Can you upload this version to the wiki please?
Put me in a room full of chlorine. Results: I die and turn into a pillar of salt and a very buggy Keen 6.

IMPOSSIBLE BULLET FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Vortlike
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Re: Keen 1 levelpack: The Life Of Mars

Post by Vortlike »

Nice to see you have implemented some of my suggestions Sodium. I do think these are some significant improvements. I did play this mod to the end this time. That is all four levels with ship parts. Unfortunately the bug that causes the player to lose a part in the wrong level is not entirely fixed yet.

I tried taking a look at the patch file to see if you made a mistake but it wasn't easy to see what. Eventually I realized that that the vacuum and joystick level are reversed and the other two levels seem to work correctly (from what I've seen)

It turns out that it wasn't really your mistake. The patch on the keen wiki actually incorrectly labeled two of the ship parts to the existing patch. This is the patch from the keen wiki:

Code: Select all

#Parts levels (Part removed if you die in this level)
%patch $4F69 {$0008W} [$74] #Joystick
%patch $4F70 {$0003W} [$74] #Battery
%patch $4F75 {$0004W} [$74] #Vacuum
%patch $4F7C {$0010W} [$74] #Whiskey
If you take a look at this patch it's worth noting that although the parts are incorrectly labeled if you look at the default values of the patch. That is the level or level number in which the part that it effects originally is in. In other words in the first line of the patch it has the value 8 and so that should be labeled as the Vacuum level not Joystick. Likewise the third line has value 4 and should be labeled as the joystick. So this should be the correctly labeled patch:

Code: Select all

#Parts levels (Part removed if you die in this level)
%patch $4F69 {$0008W} [$74] #Vacuum
%patch $4F70 {$0003W} [$74] #Battery
%patch $4F75 {$0004W} [$74] #Joystick
%patch $4F7C {$0010W} [$74] #Whiskey

Quillax, your version of the patch seems to have reverse corrected it by changing the value of the patch. but it will still affect the part it was meant to effect regardless of what level you change it to.

However I should say Sodium, you could have easily noticed this error yourself with some careful testing. It's probably never a good idea to just assume a patch works in the way you intent it without trying it out.
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Re: Keen 1 levelpack: The Life Of Mars

Post by Quillax »

Oh dang, I didn't realize the first patch I posted was incorrectly labelled. I never used that patch, so I didn't know about that. I always used the second patch (where you can't lose ship parts at all). I just assumed it would work since it's on KeenWiki, but I guess this goes to show that one should always test them out. I remember K1n9_Duk3 saying some of the patches on KeenWiki have incorrect pointers or something, so I should've had that in mind when I posted those patches. Sorry, Sodium!

P.S. I played a few levels of this levelpack. It's pretty decent so far, I say. That first level reminded me of Vanished to Venus.
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SodiumtheGlitcher
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Re: Keen 1 levelpack: The Life Of Mars

Post by SodiumtheGlitcher »

No problem! Fixed.
Put me in a room full of chlorine. Results: I die and turn into a pillar of salt and a very buggy Keen 6.

IMPOSSIBLE BULLET FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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