Atroxian Realm (Version 1.2 Released)

[Lower IQ than 314]

I always assumed that the nonlinear layout in Security Layer was intentional. Gridlock in general does such smart level design that I doubt he left a gaping flaw in this level and just hoped nobody would notice. If you go back to the official games -- especially the Galaxy engine entries -- it's actually rare when a level doesn't have tons of optional branches.

[Gridlock]

Gridlock in general does such smart level design that I doubt he left a gaping flaw in this level and just hoped nobody would notice.

Lol, I think you're giving me too much credit. I downloaded 1.4, and yeah, it totally is broken right now. The green square switch is supposed to affect both bridges at the same time. You aren't supposed to be able to progress until you hit the switch two floors above, which blocks the way backwards and opens the way forward.

It's been ages since I opened this project (seriously, how has it been over 6 years since I released this!), so I'm not sure when or how this broke. I might be able look into fixing this eventually, though Keen-related projects are unfortunately not a priority for me anymore. I imagine that actually making the fix would probably be very quick, but I'd need to get a project setup going again, which is the more difficult part.

[proYorp]

So there's this pretty big indie game called Starbound. Space-themed open-world exploration platformer, seems pretty cool.

In this game one of the primary alien races is called the Avian. They are a species of humanoid birds. From what I've seen their lore is fairly distinct from what is shown of the Krile, but there is a level centered on them called The Great Sovereign Temple which is aesthetically very very similar to The Great Ziggurat in Atroxian Realm.

Gameplay of it on YouTube:
https://youtu.be/fXG4iutQ0_0

Obviously the first similarity to notice is the architecture of ancient golden bricks, followed by the abundance of bird-themed artifacts. The level challenges are similar too. Timed disappearing platforms. A region of the level centered around dodging timed fires, and another area focused on water. Tone of the music is similar as well, especially to some of the HD demo tracks Gamebird uploaded.



Looking at the dates on the forum here, it looks like Atroxian Realm was both publicly announced and then released first, though there was a lot of overlap in development time. Still, I was curious and wanted to ask anyway if there was any inspiration taken from Starbound, or a connection of some kind. (Can't say whether the Starbound devs did or did not take inspiration from AR but I can't exactly just go and ask them on a whim like I can Gridlock hahaha.) Maybe both were derived from the same sources? The similarities are uncanny.

(This game also seems to have some things that very well could have been inspired by the original Commander Keen games, but that's another topic. )

[Gridlock]

Oh, that's interesting. This is the first I'm hearing of this game, so there's definitely no connection. As to whether the Starbound devs took inspiration from AR... probably not? AR is still a pretty obscure game overall. I've yet to meet anyone else IRL who has heard of it, even among my game dev colleagues and friends (sometimes just Keen is already obscure enough). It would be interesting if they did, though.

AR's biggest influence is Metroid (particularly Metroid II and Super Metroid), which might account for some of the parallels you're seeing. In some ways, AR was an attempt to blend the gameplay of Keen with the atmospheric aesthetic of Metroid. The Krile have pretty big similarities to the Chozo, and that even applies to aspects like the ancient golden brick temples and bird statues. The styles of environments (highly organic, ancient temples, and hi-tech sci fi) also have a lot in common. Even the Atroxians and "Atroxian Realm" could probably be compared to something in Metroid, like the Ing and Dark Aether from Metroid Prime 2. Not that I was trying to rip off Metroid entirely, you can just see how much that franchise inspired me.

When looking at Starbound, I do see the similarity with the music and Great Ziggurat design, though. At least with the Great Ziggurat, that level's design flowed pretty naturally from the idea that I wanted four challenge floors corresponding to keygem colors. And then the obstacles were pretty apparent based on the color (yellow = acid, red = fire, blue = water, green = energy). Although I think the idea of the Great Ziggurat is fairly unique, I've certainly seen plenty of golden brick temples filled with traps in other indie games (particularly Metroidvanias), so it may just be a coincidence.

[proYorp]

Ah, I think I read somewhere that Starbound had some influence from Metroid, so that's probably the connection (although now that I'm looking for that info I can't find a source, just ended up finding your post here in the search lol). Never played those games so I wouldn't have noticed.

I know these specific traps are probably pretty common platformer gimmicks, but I was struck by them using the exact same ones in the same kind of level. The fact that it already sort of reminded me of AR and then the similarities kept going further was kinda blowing my mind. I was not expecting another bird alien structure to be a near match for the one that I already knew of, since birds are not well known for building temples in real life, as far as I'm aware.

I guess I was imagining if the Starbound devs had taken inspiration from Atroxian Realm, it would've been something pretty casual, like if they were looking for inspiration from other classic platformers (like perhaps Keen) and maybe stumbled upon some in-dev screenshots of AR and thought "oh that's cool we should do something like that."

Anyway, neat trivia. Thanks for responding. It's cool to think that I can just ask directly if I'm curious about something. Don't usually have that kind of access.

[Nisaba]

Because there is currently a mesmerizing and delightful playthrough of the game made by TSK, I am vividly reminded of the first time I played AR. I can still clearly picture myself embarking on a long train journey, with my laptop and the game executable packed away as a delightful distraction.

But distraction it was not: From the very first second, the game ensnared me so deeply that the whole world around me disappeared. I remember hearing GameBirds soundtrack for the first time and diving right into those never seen graphics before just like an 8 year old with big bright excited eyes. I immediately got drawn in. AR felt incredibly immersive offering a truly intense gaming experience. The innovations were exceptionally inspiring, igniting a spark of creativity within me.

The thrill and joy of gameplay allowed me to overlook the fact that the level structures were, in truth, rather vast, convoluted. The potential to lose one’s sense of direction—a mistake I often catch myself making as a level designer as well—is perhaps the only flaw in this otherwise magnificent game.

However, aside from that, the distinct visual style that crafts a unique world, along with the myriad clever puzzle sections filled with imaginative riddles, makes this a rich and indispensable entry in the modding scene of the Keen community. You have set new standards and elevated the bar to unprecedented heights. Thank you once again for this incredible product!

[Nospike]

Hey yeah I'm also eagerly watching TSK's playthrough (and looking forward to Alphamatic as well ) I did play some AR back in the day but don't think I ever finished it, just watched a bunch of playthroughs because I didn't want to miss out on the story.

I love the overall art direction of this mod. You could argue it's not always very keenish, but neither is, say, Ruin of Roib and I still think it can fairly be called one of the best mods ever. AR has excellent (albeit complex and sometimes purposefully confounding) level design, stellar music and sound, and it really feels like a world you can dive into like Nisaba said. Plus I can't overstate how amazingly well certain details are executed, like the encounters with Atroxus, adding a whole new layer of cinematicness that the original Keen games never had as they were all about gameplay over story. Here you get both! I can't lie, I've never consciously thought about it but looking back I think a lot of my own modding efforts were definitely influenced by AR's ambition. The grim buildup to the final part of the game, the mystery of Directive X_M, the ending reveal, it's all total genius.

Let me go out of my way to praise the music one more time because I'm a freak, I regularly go back to listen to the AR soundtrack on youtube, it's one of the best in any Keen mod, incredibly cohesive and well composed and clearly a labor of love.

[Gridlock]

Appreciate the kind words! Hard for me to believe that the 10 year anniversary isn't far off. Even though it's been almost as long since I last played it myself, I still go back and listen to the soundtrack often. A remaster of all the music tracks would be such a cool thing to have, but I lack the skill to do it myself.

I wish I had been able to answer some of the lingering mysteries like Directive_X-M, haha. The original sequel concept, Voyage to Veota, is effectively dead. Even though I had a ton of extremely ambitious ideas for it (some of which could probably make for cool standalone mini-mods), it just became too convoluted and impractical for me to figure it all out. I did have some insights recently about a paired down version that could retain some of the core ideas and be feasible to make in an engine like Omnispeak. I'm pretty confident I could make something much better now than when I was in high school/college. But it's pretty tough to justify that kind of commitment, even if I wish I could.

The main thing I'm working on now in my career is a horror game called Fractured Blooms that just got announced at Summer Games Fest. It's been a pretty big opportunity, so that's definitely my primary focus.

[Syllypryde]

Appreciate the kind words! Hard for me to believe that the 10 year anniversary isn't far off. Even though it's been almost as long since I last played it myself, I still go back and listen to the soundtrack often. A remaster of all the music tracks would be such a cool thing to have, but I lack the skill to do it myself.

I wish I had been able to answer some of the lingering mysteries like Directive_X-M, haha. The original sequel concept, Voyage to Veota, is effectively dead. Even though I had a ton of extremely ambitious ideas for it (some of which could probably make for cool standalone mini-mods), it just became too convoluted and impractical for me to figure it all out. I did have some insights recently about a paired down version that could retain some of the core ideas and be feasible to make in an engine like Omnispeak. I'm pretty confident I could make something much better now than when I was in high school/college. But it's pretty tough to justify that kind of commitment, even if I wish I could.

The main thing I'm working on now in my career is a horror game called Fractured Blooms that just got announced at Summer Games Fest. It's been a pretty big opportunity, so that's definitely my primary focus.

Personally I cannot speak for Nisaba or K1n9_Duk3, but since she herself has claimed to make it her mission to bring abandoned and unrealized projects to life, maybe you could pass your ideas for the AR sequel to her and see what she could do with it, assuming they aren't too busy with their personal lives and you wouldn't have a problem with someone else creating it. Considering what they did with FitF, I bet they would do an excellent job on VtV. Of course it would be up to you to ask them when you have free time yourself. Why not? The worse that can happen is they say no or they are too busy to commit to such a grand project. It would definitely be something I would like to do myself, but unfortunately I don't possess the skills or the creatively for such a feat, which is why I try not to be too critical of the mods and level packs I don't play or think are crap, simply because I know I could never do better. It's worth a shot to ask, again, when you have the time of course.

[Lower IQ than 314]

I second Syllypryde's comment. Atroxian Realm is an incredible effort, particularly considering it was mostly made by one person, and a proper finale to it has vast potential that would be a terrible thing to throw away. It would likely take a while to make in a different engine as Gridlock initially intended, so a source mod like the original would probably be faster to make. Whatever the case may be, it's provided me with many hours of
enjoyment (at least 50% of which was spent in either Crystalcomb Hive or the Catacombs) so for that, thanks.

[Gridlock]

The 10th anniversary of AR's release did put me in a Keen mode, so I guess I'll say a few more things that I haven't previously mentioned.

The original plan from 5+ years ago was to build a new Keen engine in Unity with significantly altered gameplay. I envisioned a game with the galaxy art style, but a top-down mode of gameplay with a perspective akin to the early Mario and Luigi games (ex: Superstar Saga on the GBA). It would feature a greater focus on combat over platforming. I had a small prototype, but not much more than that. Alongside that, as mentioned in the Early "Atroxian Realm Sequel Thoughts" thread from a while back, Voyage to Veota was going to feature a chapter-based approach to storytelling that would attempt a more linear game structure.

Ultimately, that vision was both wildly overscoped and kind of an incoherent mess of way too many ideas (even if some were really cool), so I quietly gave up on it. I concluded that a sequel would require a rethink from the ground up, even if some of the core story ideas would still be salvaged.

Maybe once or twice a year since then, I will occasionally revisit the concept and try to come up with a coherent creative vision. It's something I've been unable to figure out for 10+ years. A lot of the challenge comes from the somewhat convoluted connections to the existing Keen storyline and the many, many permutations I've considered. Though, I will say that very recently I may have found out a workable high-level vision, so I guess that's something.

A hypothetical reboot of AR2 would most likely be a modernized Ominspeak-based project, since removing stifling restrictions like memory and tileset limitations would make development much easier. However, getting started has always been an obstacle, as I'm unable to devote the time and energy needed to learn the tech here, and I've been reluctant to ask for help when this project is still mostly a vague pipe dream.

As I've said many times, while it's fun to dream about what could be, the reality of actually making one of the most ambitious Keen projects ever is quite different. This could easily be a 10,000 hour commitment for a niche fan project that maybe 100-200 people will play. That math is hard for me to justify. It would be a lot to ask someone else to take on that commitment, particularly when I'd likely be absent a lot of the time. Though, if there was sufficient interest, I suppose I could keep working on GDD materials and share them eventually.

All that said, I did experiment yesterday with a new title screen for fun. Please don't take this as an announcement that I'm officially making this, but yeah, a new tentative title is "Atroxian Realm: Exegesis".

[The_Guy222]

Gridlock in general does such smart level design that I doubt he left a gaping flaw in this level and just hoped nobody would notice.

Lol, I think you're giving me too much credit. I downloaded 1.4, and yeah, it totally is broken right now. The green square switch is supposed to affect both bridges at the same time. You aren't supposed to be able to progress until you hit the switch two floors above, which blocks the way backwards and opens the way forward.

It's been ages since I opened this project (seriously, how has it been over 6 years since I released this!), so I'm not sure when or how this broke. I might be able look into fixing this eventually, though Keen-related projects are unfortunately not a priority for me anymore. I imagine that actually making the fix would probably be very quick, but I'd need to get a project setup going again, which is the more difficult part.

Hey, that's awesome to see that Exegesis might be worked on.

If Atroxian Realm 1.4 is broken, could someone please indicate the last version that is considered 'feature-complete?'

Since 1.2 is what is available on the front page, I will assume that 1.2 is the most recent 'stable release.'

[Gridlock]

Was that really almost four years ago that I said I was meaning to fix that? How is that possible? Anyway, I checked, and apparently the mistake exists in version 1.2 as well, so you might as well play version 1.4 for now.

I'm really out of the loop with the CK Source configuration that was done for this project, and this was before I got into using source control. I no longer have a working project directory, and I'm actually not sure how to set up an Abiathar project for it since there's no Gamemaps file. If someone does have a working project directory, I could probably make a quick edit and fix the mistake.

In Security Layer, the green square switches are supposed to toggle both bridges simultaneously. That's seemingly not working, but I'd have to inspect the map data to know why. It's likely either a mistake with the infoplane value(s) for the switches, or something to do with continuous bridge tiles between the two bridges (since that's a trick I used to do before it was possible to make a switch target multiple infoplane locations simultaneously).