The Keys of Krodacia: Revision Discussion

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Ceilick
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The Keys of Krodacia: Revision Discussion

Post by Ceilick » Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:57

I'd said I was going to start this topic about 'revising' The Keys of Krodacia' after keen 9 was done, but I was thinking about it today and thought I'd share my ideas and start the flow of ideas.

The purpose of the revision is to bring Keen 7 up to speed with Keen 8, 9, and the original series. This includes a number of things: adding goplat and bridge signs, changing level names, upping the graphics quality on many existing graphics, and adding additional graphics. For level design, I'm hoping to change as little as possible unless there are some highly 'unkeenish' areas in levels (or entire levels themselves, as the case may be).

With patching, enemies and otherwise, I'm open to suggestions. My ideas right now are to make the Slurple less aggressive by having it pause for several seconds between hops, and to slow the Ogobogo swimming speed slightly (I want it barely faster than Keen, but Keen should have a better chance of dodging it since he doesn't have access to schoolfish).

Some graphical changes: I plan on making the Temple entrances and the stone platform set look more like stone and less like cardboard boxes, I plan on removing “the Mansionâ€￾ level entrance and making a new one, I plan on redesigning the Complex entrance to look more city-like, similar to 'Bloogville' in keen 6.

Concerning music, apparently it is now possible to include as many songs as one wants in Keen galaxy mods. Because of this, at least 4 new songs will be added to keen 7, if not more. As far as the current songs go, I'd prefer having them re-done (same songs, just redone to hopefully sound more keenish). If anyone is willing to recompose those, that'd be awesome. If not, I will probably keep all current songs and just play the less liked ones in less levels.

Most importantly, I'd like to improve on the overall atmosphere of the game. My original intention when designing graphics and levels for Keen 7 was to create Krodacian society somewhat similar to how the Vorticons were done in Keen 3. As in that episode, here players were meant to run through Krodacian places of living, see their kitchens, living areas, bedrooms, etc. Was this a good idea? If not, what should this revision redirect focus on? If it was a good idea, how it be built on? What can we add, to one particular level or several, to add to the overall 'atmosphere' of the game? There is a ton of room in the keen 7 tileset for new graphics.

In conclusion, my hope is not to change this mod into something new, but to add to whats already here. That does involve changing some superficial things, but I think it will result in a better looking 'The Keys of Krodaciaâ€￾.

I'm interested in peoples thoughts on what should be changed and/or improved. Some specific questions:

-What existing graphics could use editing?
-What graphics could be added to enhance the atmosphere?
-What are some better level names?
-Which levels could use improvement?
-How can the Krodacians better be exemplified as enemies like the Vorticons, Shikadi, or Bloogs?
-What, in general, can be done to bring keen 7 up to scale with the other games?

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lemm
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Post by lemm » Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:10

New songs would be nice. Maybe some that aren't so menacing =). The world map song is very nice, and the quiet outdoors has a good style, although it could be less repetitive.

The outdoors panoramic background tiles are really good, I don't think you need to change those at all, or anything in the outdoors levels for that matter.

The theme I liked the least was the red indoors, because no level really stood out (It also didn't help that all of them were houses/mansions/places of residence :p). I think that if you just restricted certain graphical elements to certain levels (for example, keep all the pictures in just one level, don't use the blue wall paper in another), then each level would be more memorable.

Maybe one of the houses could be a warehouse or office, or some other place of work.

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Paramultart
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Post by Paramultart » Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:16

The music was probably my biggest pet peeve with Keen 7.
Some of the tracks just really do not fit the game at all, namely the following levels:

Level 1, (forgot the name... but the music is barely even audible)

Forest Tunnel, (It's just a bunch of random notes! So irritating, I had to turn the music completely off at this point)

Stone Temple Level 14 (Headache inducing)


That's all I can think of right now. I'll play through Keen 7 again so I can more adequately answer all of your questions.

Also, I don't mean any offense by this, it's meant to be constructive. :disguised
Last edited by Paramultart on Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:18, edited 1 time in total.

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Mobiethian
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Post by Mobiethian » Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:18

lemm wrote: New songs would be nice. Maybe some that aren't so menacing =). The world map song is very nice, and the quiet outdoors has a good style, although it could be less repetitive.
Definitely this. More various tunes will make some levels seem more unique. Other than that, good luck with the revision, i'm looking forward to it! :)

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Post by Gridlock » Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:30

First post! :) I’ve been following the board for a couple years now, and I’ve thought of a lot of suggestions for KOK.

The level graphics in your mod are perfectly fine. The map, however, has a rather dull look. Some level entrance graphic work would help, but I think you also need to focus on background objects. When looking at DITD, objects such as rocks stick out and give the map a more 3-dimensional look. Personally, I think the map would be better if it was redone, as I never really liked the layout all that much. Maybe you make the trees on the side larger instead of the compressed wall look in Keen 4.

Probably for me, the biggest problem with this mod is its similarity to Keen 4. Many of the graphics are similar, the enemies act mostly the same, and the swimming levels feel like an extension of the Well of Wishes, although I like the atmosphere in them. I noticed that in the K7 early on graphics folder you released, you had originally planned the water levels to be anti-gravity caves, and you even had the keen sprites drawn. If possible, I really think you could implement this idea instead. The level design could stay the same, except for maybe some small graphical changes.

Overall, Krodacia has very good level design, except that the secret exit in the funhouse isn’t very clever (no offense). I have a possible idea for improving it if you want, but I’d rather not ruin it for everyone.

The only level I really don’t like is Forest Skies. I think the Krodacian Magi can be a little annoying at times, but that is just me. You should make the elevator at the beginning of the level easier to find however, as it can be easy to get stuck without seeing it. Also, the brombo towards the left of the Mushroom Forest is really hard to dodge to get the gem; it would be easier if you moved the gem to the right 1 or 2 tiles.

Overall, I don’t think trying to make Krodacia more like K3 is really a solution, IMO. Adding too many rooms like kitchens and bedrooms would take away from Krodacia’s dark atmosphere, which is my favorite element of the mod. I tend to think of the houses as more of security/military complexes than living quarters. Maybe you could remix Into the Inferno to sound more like a song that would fit the feeling of stealthily trying to break into a heavily guarded building. This could be done by putting more emphasis on the songs beat, and less emphasis on the overdriven guitar.

As far as the enemies, some of them are fine as is, such as the fat monks, but others like ogobogo could use more creative touches or even replacements. The rotten radish enemy is a lot more fun when you use the “mimrocks always follow keen patchâ€￾, and it makes the level more unique. I think nosedrills could be better if, instead of drilling out forward into Keen, they popped straight up out of the ground like a mole. You could make nosedrills come out of the ground right under keen or maybe right in front of him. I like your berkeloid replacement, but maybe you could change the physics of the bomb when it is thrown, such as making it go higher but not travel as far or as fast.
The cranks could be patched to not stop moving when they fire their laser. The hopper sprite could be changed to look more like a purple Krodacian enemy. I don’t think you need to change the slurple’s behavior. Just turn on God mode and try dodging one. With a little skill, slurples aren’t too hard to dodge unless they catch you by surprise. :bloody

As far as music goes, I’d be to hear new songs and remixes of the old ones, so long as they fit the atmosphere. I’d definitely like to hear new songs for the secret level and the Fun House, as well as other levels. Please keep or remake Keen Rushin, as that is my favorite song.

Please don’t completely change entire levels like the Complex. If you want, maybe you could combine the BWB Megarocket level with the Blue Forest. That would free up an entire level slot. Also, feel free to enlarge the current levels and add new or bonus areas. K4 allows for really huge levels like K5; look at CK Guy’s level pack.

I realize this a long post, but I’ve thought of some of this stuff for a long time now and wanted to share it. This is your mod, so feel free to do whatever you want with it. I think the best way to improve K7 would be to make it more unique and different. Also, a fat monk is in the title screen, yet they only play a minor role in the story. Could you find some way to include them?

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lemm
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Post by lemm » Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:47

-How can the Krodacians better be exemplified as enemies like the Vorticons, Shikadi, or Bloogs?
Also, a fat monk is in the title screen, yet they only play a minor role in the story. Could you find some way to include them?
Or... replace it with a Krodacian?

Ceilick
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Post by Ceilick » Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:07



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Post by The Keen Commander » Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:24

I had a ton of idea for more Keenish level names, but they're all escaping me at the moment...I'll let you know when I remember them...and I'll either post them here or send you a message...I think if I open the game up and take a look at the level names again, it should come back to me. :crazy
I'd like to get a Futurama mod going. Here's what I've got so far:
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http://www.pckf.com/viewtopic.php?t=2152

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Post by The Keen Commander » Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:50

Ok, found a level lest :P

Here goes:

Blue Forest: Just fine, you might consider changing "Blue" to "Azure" if you think that sounds better.

Forest Tunnels: Back-to-back levels with the word "forest" in the name? BAD, BAD, BAD!!! I cringe every time...Tunnels of (Insert Keenish Word Here) is better...

Private Manor: Krodacian Manor...or some other play on the planet name.

Mansion:

The Complex: The Krodacian Military Base

The Mushroom Forest: You might consider "woods" to avoid redundancy...or maybe use "fungi" or "toadstool" to shake things up? :P

Cliff Hanger: The Cliffs of Krodacia

The Underground: The Sinkhole? The Underground City? Lower Krodacia? The Krodacian Canyon? The Krodacian Core? The Center of Krodacia? (Commander Keen journeys to The Center of Krodacia :P)

Monk's House: The House of Monk...(think Isle of Fire (or Tar) as opposed to Fire Island)

Gem Temple: Fine as is...possibly change to Gemstone Temple.

Forest Skies: Krodacian Skies...The Skies of Krodacia...

Slime Temple: fine.

Fun House: The Krodacian (or Mad) House...

Slime Lake: Slime Bog, The Krodacian Wetlands...

The Shoal: Krodacia Shoal

The Reef: The Great Krodacian Reef

I know I used the word "Krodacia" about a million times here, but I swear I had some better ideas before... :foot I'll play the game again and see if any of my "better" ideas come back to me. :dopekeen
I'd like to get a Futurama mod going. Here's what I've got so far:
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http://www.pckf.com/viewtopic.php?t=2152

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Post by Paramultart » Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:41

Gridlock wrote:First post! :)
WRONG!!! :moon

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Re: The Keys of Krodacia: Revision Discussion

Post by Szymon Bartus » Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:37

Ceilick wrote: For level design, I'm hoping to change as little as possible unless there are some highly 'unkeenish' areas in levels (or entire levels themselves, as the case may be).
I think that the place where you need to use walking+pogo to ge out needs to be arrange in a different way. It was annoying for me and nothing like that appeared in original games.
With patching, enemies and otherwise, I'm open to suggestions. My ideas right now are to make the Slurple less aggressive by having it pause for several seconds between hops, and to slow the Ogobogo swimming speed slightly (I want it barely faster than Keen, but Keen should have a better chance of dodging it since he doesn't have access to schoolfish).
Ogobogo is an EXTREMELY hard enemy. I think more than Dopefish. So please slow it down.
How do schoolfish help with Dopefish in Keen 4? I thought they were just there as a graphic embelishment.
Concerning music, apparently it is now possible to include as many songs as one wants in Keen galaxy mods. Because of this, at least 4 new songs will be added to keen 7, if not more. As far as the current songs go, I'd prefer having them re-done (same songs, just redone to hopefully sound more keenish). If anyone is willing to recompose those, that'd be awesome. If not, I will probably keep all current songs and just play the less liked ones in less levels.
I would love to hear nice and well-designed music like in Keen 8. Maybe you can just use the unused Keen 9 music? By the way, does the same person make music for Keen 9 as for Keen 8?

-Which levels could use improvement?
I felt pretty confused while playing the level where Krodaians are flying on their carpets evrywhere. There were so many platforms and all the time I didn't know where can I go or where should I go. It added some difficulty but probably also made the level less exciting. And of course, flying enemies made level exploration much more annoying.

Regards[/quote]

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Post by VikingBoyBilly » Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:53

Paramultart wrote:
Gridlock wrote:First post! :)
WRONG!!! :moon
He only has 1 post. How could he/she have more? :rolleyes
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Post by tulip » Thu Aug 12, 2010 13:22

I have only one wish: when you put in new songs, keep Ceilick voodoo and inferno in, but each only in a single level maybe. Don't delete them completely, you'd be killing a part of the history of this mod.
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Post by kuliwil » Thu Aug 12, 2010 14:38

The map music HAS TO STAY AS-IS!

...please :P
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Post by Lumpytoast » Thu Aug 12, 2010 16:43

kuliwil wrote:The map music HAS TO STAY AS-IS!

...please :P
I second this.

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