Forum Rules Discussion

[Flaose]

"We the People of the Public Commander Keen Forum, in order to establish a less butthurt community..."

Ahem. Anyways. It's been made clear that a discussion and possible revision of the forum rules is desired. This is the thread to do it in! When talking about things that you feel do and don't work, here are some suggestions to guide the discussion:

The current draft of the new rules:

1. Your administrators are Ceilick, tulip, and Flaose
2. Avatar size shouldn't exceed 160x160px, and signature pictures shouldn't exceed 100px high. Don't distort the forum with huge location entries, large pictures, or by using too many lines in a signature.
3. Use only a single account. Don't create dummy accounts to use as "sock-puppets", to impersonate others, or just as a joke.
4. Don't post sexual, racist, or otherwise obscene comments or images. This is a board meant to be used by minors as well as adults. Don't intentionally bypass the word censor. While using swear-words is against the rules, words that are pejorative towards a person's gender, race, nationality, sexual orientation, religion, or other personal traits, will be dealt with much more severely.
5. Keep discussion civil. Don't deliberately annoy, offend, antagonize, or bully other members. Conflicts will arise but if it is something serious keep it to private discussion. If you feel that you are being bullied, let an administrator know via private message. Don't allow yourself to be dragged into a fight, or try and take the law into your own hands, or you may also be punished.
6. Don't create intentionally irrelevant posts. If you're about to upload a one- or two-word post, first ask yourself, "Does my post add to the discussion?" If the answer is no, reconsider posting it.
7. The PCKF is still a mostly text-based forum. As such, posting only images on a regular basis is not okay.
8. Don't double-post on a regular basis. Instead, consider editing your last post in order to add the new information. Likewise, avoid posting in topics that are more than 3 months old.
   
   Remember: You are a guest, act like one.
   
   Punishments for breaking the rules include (in order of severity): warnings (either on the forum or via private message), post deletions, temporary bans, and permanent bans. Unless the violation is intentionally and severely flagrant (e.g. posting child pornography), you will receive a one-strike private message warning for bannable behavior. A second violation of the warned behavior will result in a ban.

The current rules:

• Avatar size shouldn't exceed 160x160px and if you have to have a signature picture keep it's height below 100px. This includes other things distorting the forum like huge location entries, and too many lines in a signature.
• Don't spam post: saying things like "yay 900th post", "what", and other irrelevant things is not okay. Post only if you have something to say. Posting one or two word messages on a regular basis, or posting with only images on a regular basis, is not okay. Do not double post on a regular basis. Admins will delete posts of these natures at their deliberation. If you see someone breaking this rule, let the Admins do their job or privately bring it to an admin's attention. Posting "that post was pointless" or anything similar violates this rule.
• Don't deliberately annoy, offend, antagonize, or bully other members. Conflicts will arise but if it is something serious you can always use private messages to address specific members and/or contact the admins to help resolve the issue. Don't take your personal problems with a member into the public by, such as creating a topic about a member or spreading your conflict throughout the forum or an individual topic.
• Don't be offensive. No sexual, racist, or other obscene comments or images. This is a board meant to be used by minors as well as adults, in the ideal sense of the word.
• Don't impersonate others. It doesn't matter if it's in order to confuse others or just for fun. That includes: Stealing avatars, and creating accounts with almost the same name as another user.
• Don't take the law into your own hands. If you think someone is breaking the rules then take it up with an admin in private or ignore it and let the admins do their job.
  
  These are the specific rules. Other misconduct or disruption on the forum will be addressed as it comes up and more rules will follow if necessary. Don't look for loopholes in the rules, the admins will just kick your ass anyway.
  
  Punishments for breaking the rules include (in order of severity): warnings (either on the forum or via private message), post deletions, temporary bans, and permanent bans.

Here's an older set of rules (from cc314):

• Some things you may not do:
• Insult or otherwise offend other users. You're allowed to disagree with somebody, but that's no reason to call that person an idiot.
• Start or participate in a flame war.
• Troll, that is, post a message with the sole intent of provoking a fierce reaction.
• Pretend to be anyone other than yourself (i.e. a moderator or an administrator).
• Spam, advertise for commercial products, pornographic websites, or make money fast schemes.
• Offer or request pirated copies of any commercial software (this includes Keens 2, 3, 5, the registered versions of 6 and Dreams, and the ROM of Commander Keen for the Game Boy Color!)
• Lobby for someone's banishment to be lifted. If you think someone has been banned on incorrect premises, contact an administrator.
• Post messages in ALL CAPS, which indicates you're shouting and is considered rather rude.
• Use a message signature containing multiple images or excessive HTML effects.
• Flood the board with unwelcome posts.
• Use vulgar language, or post anything inappropriate for children. There are kids here too, remember?
• Threaten to break these rules or try to make someone break them.

And finally, the original rules (from the old cc314):

• This is a moderated forum, so don't try anything stupid
• Do not SPAM the board, this not only makes it worse for you, but it annoys other people
• Please speak/type only in ENGLISH
• Try not to start arguments, if you must, do it in a civil manner
• Do not use obcene language, there are kids here too, remember
• Do not use excessive HTML in your message
• You must register in order to use this board.

So go at it! Keep discussion civil! We'll try and reach some sort of consensus or compromise after discussion winds down.

[entropicdecay]

Looking at those current rules, it seems like:
a) people need to follow them more
b) they ought to be made somewhat clearer/more specific

[Lava89]

"You must register in order to use this board."

This rule should be upheld most of all!

[Rorie]

this may be off topic but

flaose i sincerely apologize for being the brat i once used to be. i would pick fights with you ek and chogall and other members. disability was and is no excuse for my behaviour, i just wish to say thank you for letting me grow and becoming mature yes you were prepared to throw the book at me several times but you didn't and i really do appreciate that so thank you

if only chogall and ek were still here they would be so pleased on how far i have come

[troublesomekeen]

The current rules look good to me. Perhaps some specifications on multiple accounts?

this may be off topic but

^And we definitely need a rule in place to prevent this!^
Nah, just kidding. Btw, is there a rule about hijacking/off-topic posts? I guess it goes without saying.

I don't see in the three sets of rules listed anything about bumping topics/posting in old topics. Is there an unwritten rules about this issue?
Some forums have rules like:
"Do not bump your own topics unless they are over thirty days old."
and
"Refrain from posting in any topic over a month old unless you have something useful to contribute to the topic at hand. If you want to talk about something else, make a new topic for it."
There's probably not a necessity for a rule that covers this issue. I was just wondering. Oh, and do the old cc314 rules still apply? Sometimes I wonder why we need rules. It's a Keen forum. What could possibly go wrong?

[guynietoren]

I'm assuming that "Do not double post on a regular basis" means that we can still bump topics if we were also the last person to post in a while. Such as if my last post were to comment on someone else's remark and then update the progress of the project later on. Since editing the last post would largely go unnoticed.

[Keening_Product]

[*]Don't spam post: saying things like "yay 900th post", "what", and other irrelevant things is not okay. Post only if you have something to say. Posting one or two word messages on a regular basis, or posting with only images on a regular basis, is not okay.

I'm just going to say that what's relevant or irrelevant or worthwhile to some is the opposite to others. There have been many "what" posts which have been silly, but there are also some times when those statements are serious. You don't need to write an essay to tell someone what they said doesn't make sense, and different people express themselves differently.
As for the regular basis thing: I can't think of many instances where people have resorted to only posting images for any length of time. There have been times when it has come into fashion for lots of people to do it, making it seem like everyone is doing it all the time, but no real issue in it. IIRC, image-only and meme-only posts have been panned, no matter what the posting record of the poster is. How often is too often? On a side note, we have to remember that the internet is a multimedia-rich format that invites the use of images to describe things.

Some forums have rules like:
"Do not bump your own topics unless they are over thirty days old."

That won't work for some topics - the music and news topics, not to mention the fan art topics can and should be bumped in light of any new content. And double-posting on those threads should be allowed too, which is presently is I believe.

Should these rules have a warning points system? I know this board isn't set up to do that using any internal system, but there's no reason why the moderators can't keep a central database. This way there can be a clear cause and effect for breaking the rules, and people can clearly see that they're pushing it when they get close to a ban-worthy amount of points.

[tulip]

Sometimes I wonder why we need rules. It's a Keen forum. What could possibly go wrong?

Word man. But as I stated before, there weren't any rules for years, we had to introduce the rules at some point because things had gone wrong. Sad as it may seem there are rotten people in every segment of society.


Addressing Keening_Product's points:
As of now I don't think we need a rule against double posting and bumping, as this hasn't really gone out of hand. Only thing I hate to see is that zombie keen all the time, even when the bumping post was constructive. But bumping and double posting hasn't been annoying so far I think.
As for the warning point system, this community is still small enough that we can keep track of every active member without the aid of a database, if it was ten times the amount of active people maybe we'd need one, but now I think we can manage. Warnings have been issued several times, but worked only with the most reasonable of members.

[Keening_Product]

Still, a clear cause-and-effect demerit points might, and hopefully should, see those who don't stay in line realise that what they do will see them banned.
It'll also mean everyone's certainly equal; a comment which fits demerit point criteria is clear and can be pointed out by anyone (though I advise via PM, not forum), meaning anyone from moderators to modders to players to people who stick to Misc will all be treated equally. It'll settle the argument over modders being given preferential treatment.
It also means everyone is treated equally regardless of previous offenses; I believe one of Paramultart's complaints was that all of a sudden he had previous offenses dredged out as justification of his ban. How was he to know that was coming? It hadn't been done in the past. The demerit points system is clear and fair.
Plus, if there's some way of making these things public, it might just shame people into not breaching rules.

[tulip]

It's only natural that previous offenses will play a role in severity of measures. And I think it's justified too. You did it before, you should know better by now. Easy logic.
I'm not too eager on the treat everyone equal either, since the same action per se, can be less or more offensive depending on who did it. I can see where you're coming from, and everyone being treated equal would be nice, but for one it not always makes sense as I just said, and second it's clearly utopia. We certainly try to be fair, but I'm afraid there's no fool proof system to determine the equality of measures. I'm afraid it'll invite people to argue over measures done to someone there and then, and why they haven't seen the exact same amount of ban on another instance, and you know what I mean.
I might be a little too pessimistic on the matter, though.

[KeenEmpire]

As for the warning point system, this community is still small enough that we can keep track of every active member without the aid of a database, if it was ten times the amount of active people maybe we'd need one, but now I think we can manage. Warnings have been issued several times, but worked only with the most reasonable of members.

The problem with this system is that it's invisible. For people like Paramultart who were (supposedly) getting harassed, and indeed for people in general, there's no clear sign that you're actually doing anything, and this could lead to escalation or just a tone of general disregard.

The mod system has to be visible, whether it's via warning points or wall of shame.

[Fleexy]

I think there needs to be some sort of rules about what the moderators can do and when they should do it. A few people (more or less including myself) were annoyed at some admins' actions.

[Flaose]

That's already set forth in the current rules, as Tulip wrote:

These are the specific rules. Other misconduct or disruption on the forum will be addressed as it comes up and more rules will follow if necessary. Don't look for loopholes in the rules, the admins will just kick your ass anyway.

Punishments for breaking the rules include (in order of severity): warnings (either on the forum or via private message), post deletions, temporary bans, and permanent bans.

[Keening_Product]

It's only natural that previous offenses will play a role in severity of measures. And I think it's justified too. You did it before, you should know better by now. Easy logic.

In Para's case, wasn't it that previous unpunished offenses were dug up, despite there having been punished offenses between them (the first recent ban) and the long-term ban? It's hard to follow, and a clear points system would mean it's not up to the moderator to decide when previous offenses will count.

[KeenEmpire]

Also, the current rules seem somewhat weaker than the old one "you may disagree with someone, but there's no reason to call them an idiot". For instance, a couple of weeks ago, there was someone arguing about copyright pretty much by saying "this is obvious" then insulting anyone who tried to explain otherwise. This is, I think, another example of abuse of the goodwill afforded by our current rules.