Tom Hall and John Romero Q/A at G+ Hangout on 2012/06/25

GolfHacker · Post by **GolfHacker** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 0:45

VikingBoyBilly wrote:
GolfHacker wrote: Actually, I would like to see it released in its original classic engine.
We already have that. It's UTUIT (Keys of Krodacia, Dead in the Desert, Battle of the Brains). That's why a lot of us would rather see an official TUIT with a new engine, giving us something revolutionary that doesn't make UTUIT feel like a pointless effort.

Well, I can't debate your feelings. But in my opinion, UTUIT wouldn't be pointless. It would still be a somewhat different story than the official TUIT, with different scenery, enemies, level designs, and challenges. And it would still be fun to play!

StupidBunny · Post by **StupidBunny** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:57

GolfHacker wrote:Well, I can't debate your feelings. But in my opinion, UTUIT wouldn't be pointless. It would still be a somewhat different story than the official TUIT, with different scenery, enemies, level designs, and challenges. And it would still be fun to play!

My thoughts exactly. To say that a TUIT already existed on the Galaxy engine, even in part, makes UTUIT "pointless" would be a discredit to the incredible hard work that went into it. It has an existence and an enjoyability outside of merely being "the unofficial TUIT." Besides that, lots of mods and fangames involve confrontations with Mortimer, sometimes even final.

DukeNukem 2417 · Post by **DukeNukem 2417** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 13:39

StupidBunny wrote:
GolfHacker wrote:Well, I can't debate your feelings. But in my opinion, UTUIT wouldn't be pointless. It would still be a somewhat different story than the official TUIT, with different scenery, enemies, level designs, and challenges. And it would still be fun to play!
My thoughts exactly. To say that a TUIT already existed on the Galaxy engine, even in part, makes UTUIT "pointless" would be a discredit to the incredible hard work that went into it. It has an existence and an enjoyability outside of merely being "the unofficial TUIT." Besides that, lots of mods and fangames involve confrontations with Mortimer, sometimes even final.

Seconded. UTUIT is good on its own, but when/if the TUIT source code and engine were ever released, UTUIT could be its own story and possibly get a new title, while TUIT would be...well, TUIT.

UTUIT isn't "pointless" by any stretch of the imagination.

ckguy · Post by **ckguy** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 19:26

This is awesome and I hope these hopes become realities.

Paramultart · Post by **Paramultart** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 21:35

ckguy wrote:This is awesome and I hope these hopes become realities.

Why wouldn't they?

It's not like John Romero has ever let us down before!

...

*cough*

Deltamatic · Post by **Deltamatic** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 22:49

Although I kind of could have seen the source code thing coming since the news came out a while back that they might have it lying around, it's been so long without this sort of progress that I'd grown to think of there being no form of official activity as The Way Things Are. It's good to know I can be surprised in that area.

Post by **Keening_Product** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 14:28

They are either slow in getting it, or building hype in the hope of making a new game.

Probably the former, but please prove me wrong!

Lava89 · Post by **Lava89** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 15:55

Many thanks Paramultart for posting this! And thanks to whoever asked Tom Hall about Keen TUIT and the sources for the previous games.

VikingBoyBilly wrote:]We already have that. It's UTUIT (Keys of Krodacia, Dead in the Desert, Battle of the Brains). That's why a lot of us would rather see an official TUIT with a new engine, giving us something revolutionary that doesn't make UTUIT feel like a pointless effort.

Who says it wouldn't be a new engine? I remember Tom Hall saying that he wanted to do something like Mario 64 or Pandemonium with TUIT, but they beat him to the punch of having the first mainstream 3D platformer. Not to imagine the fact that the next game they put out was Wolfenstein 3D and DOOM, both of which were 3D. So I imagine TUIT having a pseudo 3D feel to it. Probably something beyond what the Galaxy engine could handle, or at the very most, it was a modified Galaxy engine.

Besides, I can't imagine Tom Hall putting TUIT on the Galaxy engine, otherwise I think they would've churned those games out, instead of shelving them.

Paramultart · Post by **Paramultart** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 18:53

Lava89 wrote:Many thanks Paramultart for posting this! And thanks to whoever asked Tom Hall about Keen TUIT and the sources for the previous games.

Thanks, but I am the same person who asked them about the TUIT sources.
I thought you all knew my name was "Ryan" by now.

Gridlock · Post by **Gridlock** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 19:29

So I imagine TUIT having a pseudo 3D feel to it. Probably something beyond what the Galaxy engine could handle, or at the very most, it was a modified Galaxy engine.

Definitely agree that it would be a new engine. From my current modding project I've seen the Galaxy engine pushed to the limit. Because of its limitations, I'm sure this TUIT engine is something completely new. However, I'm bracing for disappointment regarding this engine. It seems obvious that they didn't get very far and didn't consider what they had worth pursuing. Even still, I'm incredibly curious what they did create. Even though it's nearly two decades too late to make a significant cultural impact like Super Mario 64, at least it'll give this community more kindling.

Also, I'm curious what could be done with the Keen sources. I don't expect much in the way of complete transformations (even modding is an insane amount of work), but could this make patching and other changes easier? What limitations have we had by not having the source code?

thehackercat · Post by **thehackercat** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 0:26

I'm of the opinion that it would be a new engine.. Basically for the reason that Lava89 said: if they had stuck with the Galaxy engine, there would've been no halt in production.

Gridlock wrote:What limitations have we had by not having the source code?

I don't pretend to be completely knowledgable in the modding department. I do know that we (um.. well, at least people like Lemm and the lass) have had to piece together the way things work by digging into assembly code, which is a terrible way to do things if you mean to get a clear picture of how an engine works as a whole. However, their valiant efforts have certainly provided us with some useful tools and cool stuff (just look at the UTUIT trilogy!). The source code would be much more understandable than the random chunks of memory which have been isolated through trial and error. Plus, it could perhaps even be compiled for modern operating systems.

Post by **Keening_Product** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:58

thehackercat wrote:
Gridlock wrote:What limitations have we had by not having the source code?
I don't pretend to be completely knowledgable in the modding department. I do know that we (um.. well, at least people like Lemm and the lass) have had to piece together the way things work by digging into assembly code, which is a terrible way to do things if you mean to get a clear picture of how an engine works as a whole. However, their valiant efforts have certainly provided us with some useful tools and cool stuff (just look at the UTUIT trilogy!). The source code would be much more understandable than the random chunks of memory which have been isolated through trial and error. Plus, it could perhaps even be compiled for modern operating systems.

Which also means the Galaxy engine could be expanded beyond what has been managed already?

GolfHacker · Post by **GolfHacker** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 14:17

Keening_Product wrote:Which also means the Galaxy engine could be expanded beyond what has been managed already?

Absolutely. If you have the source code, it's relatively easy to add new features, change how things work, etc. Then you can compile it into a brand new executable, and you can compile it to run natively on other operating systems, without the need for emulators like DOSBox.

Post by **Keening_Product** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:31

KeenEmpire · Post by **KeenEmpire** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:04

I thought we already had an engine (Commander Genius)?