Operation Station Infiltration

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XkyRauh
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Re: Operation Station Infiltration

Post by XkyRauh »

If Red has a green bottom, then Blue shouldn't have a green bottom also. If Green's going to have a pink bottom, there should maybe be a Robo Pink? Could just cycle everything, so that Red has green bottom, Blue has yellow, Green has red, and Yellow has blue. Why not have one of the mouths be more of a sadistic, toothy grin? Red's default expression seems almost happy relative to the rest. :)
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Re: Operation Station Infiltration

Post by Syllypryde »

Any updates on this project?
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Re: Operation Station Infiltration

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I haven't had much time to work on this since last July; a lot has been going on in my life since then, including working towards a degree in computer science which is taking up most of my free time. I'm finally learning to code for myself :dopefish

When I get back to this, the to-do list is pretty straightforward:

1. Game Engine: Currently I don't have this set up as a source mod and I don't have the technical experience quite yet to utilize K1n9_Duk3's recreated source code to get there. I'd love to work with K1n9_Duk3 again to make this a source mod, but that'll depend on his availability. Otherwise this will be a standard galaxy mod with no additional enemies, and possibly some other limitations.

2. Graphics: I'm not at my work station at the moment, but as I recall, the tiles and additional enemies are basically done. That said, there is still a lot of room for additional graphics, so I may add more as things develop. I don't expect more than a week or two worth of work here.

3. Levels: Pretty straightforward. I could begin this immediately, but I'd rather wait so that I can design areas around new enemies if they'll be featured. I do have a list of level names and some very general concepts for them. The mod will feature 15 levels + a BwB level. I'm speedy with level design so when I'm in a position to work on this 'full time', I'd estimate 3 months work.

4. Story & Menus: The story is drafted already, I've drawn up some of the story screens, and the other menus should be a cinch since they'll utilize a lot from Return to the Shadowlands. This will take about a week or two.

I am excited to work on this again, and I hope I'll be able to in the next few months.
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Re: Operation Station Infiltration

Post by Quillax »

A few ideas for Robo Yellow/Teal, if you'd like:
  • Shoot two projectiles that bounce around diagonally like Keen 3 jacks and disappear after a while. One projectile starts upward and the other starts downward.
  • Shoot a projectile downwards that then spreads out on the floor (whether in one way or both); something like what the Sumo Bros make in Super Mario World.
  • Shoot a projectile that goes through walls. It could probably be like a Meep's wave, except taller.
  • Shoot a little projectile in a straight horizontal direction. At first it's harmless, but after some time, it becomes a huge explosion.
I like the ideas that Nisaba and Xky Rauh provided.

I hope you'll be able to work on this again! K1n9_Duk3 hasn't been here for over half a year now; hopefully he's doing okay. I hope either he or some other experienced programmer will be able to implement your new enemies and such! I also hope you're doing good with the degree you're working towards! Maybe you'll get enough experience to add the new stuff yourself! :)
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Re: Operation Station Infiltration

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Ceilick wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 14:42 a lot has been going on in my life since then, including working towards a degree in computer science which is taking up most of my free time. I'm finally learning to code for myself :dopefish
Wow nice! That sounds really cool and I'm happy for you that you get to do that! :D I recently saw a very entertaining and pleasantly informative video summarizing some topics of computer science. (It was this, if any of my fellow nerds are interested: https://youtu.be/H565avw-ufk)


Quillax wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 22:51 Shoot a projectile that goes through walls. It could probably be like a Meep's wave, except taller.
Sounds like the Cybloog from Battle of the Brains, which is also a good enemy and can be fun to navigate. Is the goal to make something totally new though?
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Re: Operation Station Infiltration

Post by Ceilick »

Yeah, the goal is for them each to have a different method of attack, and possibly some subtleties in their behavior.

I'm actually unsatisfied with the design of Robo Yellow and working on some revisions, which I'll show and talk about below, along with the other new enemies I'm working on.

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  • Robo Blue: moves faster than Robo Red, fires 4 Keen seeking missiles.
  • Robo Green: moves more erratically than Robo Red, fires a flame thrower which shoots flame as well as ejects balls of flame in an arch toward the ground.
  • Robo Yellow: The design has been changed to give it more of a gunslinger look, and to design it smaller in an effort to compliment Robo Blue's smaller stature. Not sure on behavior differences. I've had the idea for a shot that moves in a wave pattern, but the current design doesn't look like it would shoot a projectile like that. Still developing this. Ideas welcome.
Each Robo type will be assigned to a different defense tunnel aboard the Omegamatrix. Just like the Omegamatic, there will be four defense tunnels leading to four different machines. Working titles are: Defense Tunnel Shoxi, Defense Tunnel Eblon, Defense Tunnel Vorth, and Defense Tunnel Zoff. Sound like Shikadi names?

Other creatures seen here are in various stages of development and may or may not be included. From left to right:
  • The Axon, which is the contents of a Spherefull without it's globe like container. These creatures reminded me of the nervous system, hence their name which means nerve fiber. These things float around randomly and slowly and can be temporarily stunned. It'll probably be smaller than it is here, this is a first draft with two versions for different central eyes. If it's not included in this mod, I may give it a different backstory and carry it over to Sign of the Vool, as it looks like it could belong there too.
  • The Sparky Mark II, a Keen Galaxy redesign from Xky's Keen X. Might behave just like a Sparky but takes two shots.
  • To the right of the regular Sparky is Sparky Jr., which I imagine as Keen Galaxy's Vorticon youth; speedy and stuns Keen.
  • Below the Sparky's is an unnamed robot. Don't have much in mind for it, but thought I'd share the design.
  • Next is Big Ampton. Big Ampton is Little Ampton's intimidating brother. It stomps around, possibly shaking the screen obnoxiously as it does. It is deadly and reflects Keen's shot back at him if shot from the front. May take multiple shots. Won't be a common enemy.
  • Below Big Ampton is the half drawn Ohmbre. I don't know if I'll include this one. Behavior wise, it's deadly and invulnerable, it might move around like an Orbatrix and teleport like a Shikadi Master.
  • Below the Ohmbre is Battle of the Brain's Shikadi Probe, with remodeled designs which I'm calling the Watt and Killowatt. Watts float around harmlessly. Killowatts are armed with some kind of ray gun. Not sure about including these. If it's not included in this mod, I may rename it and carry it over to Sign of the Vool, as it looks like it could belong there too.
  • Last is the Battle of the Brains Vlorg, and a potential remodel I'm working on based on the QED animation, which will animate differently. Unlike Battle of the Brains, where the Vlorg behaves like a slow Volte-face, the intended behavior will be the classic enemy that follows you when your back is turned and can move through walls. It'll stun temporarily.
If this mod features new enemies, I for sure want to include the different Robos and Big Ampton. I'm most happy with those. The others I'm iffy on and only want to include a couple; I don't want to crowd out the original cast of enemies. What creatures look the most interesting and like they belong in Keen 5 to you all?
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Re: Operation Station Infiltration

Post by Nisaba »

In comparison to the rest of the Robo gang, Robo Yellow seems to be the only dude that's leaning forward ever so slightly. To me this seems to be the only visual caveat. And it might not even be noticeable given, that in-game the robots won't be seen right next to one another, right? So this is just a consideration to take into account if your intention is to make them all feel the same in terms of visual aggressiveness.
Some random thoughts about possible behavior patterns for Robo Yellow:
I was thinking of a warping / dashing mechanism. So it's main thread is more about coming closer quickly instead of complex firing patterns.

- Defense Tunnel Shoxi, foreshadows a shockwave-like attack one should be prepared for.

- The Axon reminds me of that cyan cyto-cell-like SofV creature. To me the Axon has more character in comparison to the existing cyan looking thing. So I could imagine it as a good replacement. And it definitely comes with a Sign of the Vool like vibe.

- The Sparky Mark II, given its size I'm having trouble finding a good reason why it should take two shots instead of one. I always had the idea that the size and the number of shots needed to take out an opponent should correlate.

- Sparky Jr.. I like that idea very much. Love to see it in-game

- Watt & Killowatt. I'm a huge fan of having alterations of a creature like the Sparky. I could even imagine that one could even trigger difference appearances by shooting this creature. Say if you shout it down from the air, it becomes a standard Sparky and moves as we know it from Keen 5. Shoot it again and it might turn into a Sparky Jr. Just like as it is morphing shapes. I can imagine certain circumstance where it's more helpful for the player to have a standard moving Sparky instead of one that blocks the ceiling and so on.
on another note the cyan coloured Sparky could behave like the mad mushroom and bounce up and down a bit while moving. shoot it and it will turn into a Killowatt.
It should became clear that I favour the Sparky iterations. I'm very fond of the idea of presenting slight variations of a familiar creature design. Of course, my suggestions do not have to be reflected in the game. But I think variations of a known enemy is a very exciting approach that can definitely enrich the level pack and make it even more interesting. So lil + Big Ampton; yes please. Robo gang; hell yeah. Sparky family; absolutely.

- now give me a Spirogrip alteration that thieves and carries the keys from A to B. you need to shoot it to free the key gems
- And I'd love to see baby Shikadi mines that move just as fast as Fleex' & KeenMark's interpretation of the Shikadi mine.
- while at it, let's have a Spindred alteration that moves from left to right, or even in circles.
so many options... so many options...

Bottom line, I'm really looking forward to more updates on this project as all of this already looks very promising. Can't wait to be scared by the Robos. Keep up the good work!
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XkyRauh
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Re: Operation Station Infiltration

Post by XkyRauh »

If Robo Yellow's shot is a wave, I'd love to see the robot slump over to the side a bit, like he's leaning on his weapon a bit, or something. I really appreciate that you made the base colors cycle into each other! :D
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Re: Operation Station Infiltration

Post by StupidBunny »

I'm glad that Robo Blue fanart I did half a lifetime ago is making its way into a Ceilick mod! It's even on the title screen heh

I know this is old news to everyone who's been around lately but just wanted to say this looks super cool, I love the concept of having separate sub-boss robots with different roboty abilities throughout the game. Oh and also that Xky's Sparky Mk. II is back in a mod for the first time in like two decades that I'm aware of
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Re: Operation Station Infiltration

Post by Quillax »

Oh wow, this is so cool! Love all these enemy designs you've come up with; you always get the Keen style down to a T! (Or is it a K?) The idea of having a unique Robo for each tunnel is an awesome idea and the Big Ampton looks pretty intimidating indeed! Defense Tunnels Shoxi, Eblon, Vorth, and Zoff? They sound just as Shikadi as Vlook, Burrh, Sorra, and Teln!

Of all the enemies you're considering, I like Sparky Jr. and Vlorg the best. They fit Keen 5 and also add something new to the game -- they're not like slightly altered clones of existing enemies. I also like the idea of bringing back Xky's Sparky Mark II. When I first read "two shots", I interpreted it as in if it charges and Keen jumps over, it'll soon turn over to charge just one more time. Maybe that would be something you'd like to use? I like how the Axon looks (definitely reminds me of SotV), but if it's just a Sphereful that can be stunned, then I'd probably save it for SotV.

Some more ideas for Robo Yellow:
  • Shoot some kind of freezing projectile (like a ray), and then charge forward. If Keen gets frozen, then he's gonna be a goner, but if he avoided the freezing thing, then he has a chance to avoid getting run over.
  • Move slowly and only turn if either shot or upon approaching a wall or cliff. If Keen ever gets in front of the gun, Robo Yellow shoots a lightspeed laser that cannot be avoided unless there's a wall in between. Maybe at timed intervals, Robo Yellow stops, turns around for a moment, and then turns back and continue moving.
  • Move slowly, but if it senses Keen, it charges right towards him while shooting downwards like a maniac.
  • Shoot a few bombs, each in an arch towards the floor. The bombs are harmless at first, but after being on the floor for a moment, they create a straight, upward explosion.
I'd also like to point out that Robo Yellow right now looks like a more sneaky kind of robot, using a powerful weapon with more thought and precision than its buddies. I think it's because of how it's leaning a bit more forward and the way the weapon looks.
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Re: Operation Station Infiltration

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Nisaba wrote:I was thinking of a warping / dashing mechanism. So it's main thread is more about coming closer quickly instead of complex firing patterns.
I like the idea of random dashes (forward and backward) to throw the player off. Strafing with a Robo Red is dangerous but necessary in some cases, and doing so with Robo Yellow would be VERY dangerous.
Nisaba wrote:The Sparky Mark II, given its size I'm having trouble finding a good reason why it should take two shots instead of one. I always had the idea that the size and the number of shots needed to take out an opponent should correlate.
For me, the difference in color could be a difference in armor.
Nisaba wrote:I'm a huge fan of having alterations of a creature like the Sparky. I could even imagine that one could even trigger difference appearances by shooting this creature. Say if you shout it down from the air, it becomes a standard Sparky and moves as we know it from Keen 5. Shoot it again and it might turn into a Sparky Jr. Just like as it is morphing shapes. I can imagine certain circumstance where it's more helpful for the player to have a standard moving Sparky instead of one that blocks the ceiling and so on.
on another note the cyan coloured Sparky could behave like the mad mushroom and bounce up and down a bit while moving. shoot it and it will turn into a Killowatt.
I hadn't exactly intended for the Watt and Killowatt to be Sparky variants, despite their obvious inspiration from the Sparky, but you do make a compelling case for a flying Sparky variant that uses their model. The Sparky Mark III? The Sparky III Air?

I really like the names Watt and Killowatt and might design some new robots around them.
Nisaba wrote:while at it, let's have a Spindred alteration that moves from left to right, or even in circles.
Oh boy, now I'm imagining an absolute nightmare creature that's a Spindred that bounces along a platform, moving left and right.

XkyRauh wrote:If Robo Yellow's shot is a wave, I'd love to see the robot slump over to the side a bit, like he's leaning on his weapon a bit, or something.
This sounds visually compelling and I'll see if I can pull it off.

StupidBunny wrote:I'm glad that Robo Blue fanart I did half a lifetime ago is making its way into a Ceilick mod! It's even on the title screen heh
Obviously I love the design, I'm glad I have your approval! My one concern with Robo Blue is that he's much smaller than the other Robos. I've tried designing him larger, but he ends up looking like a goofy deodorant stick :lol
Quillax wrote:I like how the Axon looks (definitely reminds me of SotV), but if it's just a Sphereful that can be stunned, then I'd probably save it for SotV.
To be clearer, the Axon would behave different from a Sphereful; it would float more like a Blorb (but hopefully more intelligently). Perhaps it would take several shots just to stun, given it's large size/easy shootability. Or perhaps shooting a Sphereful several times results in an Axon.

As Nisaba mentioned, SotV has a creature that is somewhat similar, the Squeam, and there's another similar creature too, the Oblobe.
Quillax wrote:Move slowly, but if it senses Keen, it charges right towards him while shooting downwards like a maniac.
I like this idea a lot actually, that Robo Yellow moves while shooting. I'm imaging this similar to how the Bipship flys and shoots.

Summary:

I've got two main Robo Yellow variants I'll work on: "Heavy" Robo Yellow who leans on a heavy wave gun, and "Light" Robo Yellow, who dashes randomly and dashes while shooting at a downward angle.

I'll modify the Watt/Killowatt into a finalized Sparky III "Name Pending" flying Sparky design.

I may sketch some new bots to take on the Watt/Killowatt names.

I'm still happy to hear more feedback on the creature designs presented and other ideas.

Something New:

The Omegamatrix, like the Omegamatic, features four machines/levels that make it possible to create a planetary defense shield over Fribbulus Xax. I actually did a bit of Sci-fi research here for these, but if anyone has a better idea for any/all of the machines, please share! What I have:

The Magnetic Field Manipulator: responsible for manipulating magnetic fields in order to shape a layer of plasma around the planet.

The Plasma Conduction Center: heats the layer of plasma so that objects that come in contact with it are vaporized.

The Ion Injection System: injects the plasma layer with ions to block high energy radiation weapons from penetrating the field.

The Photochromatic Emitter: allows the shield to block laser fire.

As you all know, this mod intends to strike a balance between new and old material. That said, would you rather see:
  • 4 completely new machines to break the fuses on?
  • 4 slight variations to the original machines?
  • the original machine graphics left alone?
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Re: Operation Station Infiltration

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Ceilick wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 22:05
Quillax wrote:I like how the Axon looks (definitely reminds me of SotV), but if it's just a Sphereful that can be stunned, then I'd probably save it for SotV.
To be clearer, the Axon would behave different from a Sphereful; it would float more like a Blorb (but hopefully more intelligently). Perhaps it would take several shots just to stun, given it's large size/easy shootability. Or perhaps shooting a Sphereful several times results in an Axon.
Hey, that sounds neat! Had I went into this mod without knowing the Axon, I imagine that I'd be very surprised if I shot a Sphereful several times and then a horrifying creature came out of it! :O I almost forgot to mention that I like the idea of expanding on the lore of existing enemies! There are so many blanks you can fill in just with the original Keen characters and settings.
Ceilick wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 22:05
Quillax wrote:Move slowly, but if it senses Keen, it charges right towards him while shooting downwards like a maniac.
I like this idea a lot actually, that Robo Yellow moves while shooting. I'm imaging this similar to how the Bipship flys and shoots.

I've got two main Robo Yellow variants I'll work on: "Heavy" Robo Yellow who leans on a heavy wave gun, and "Light" Robo Yellow, who dashes randomly and dashes while shooting at a downward angle.
Thanks! I'm glad you like the idea! I think it fits Robo Yellow's design quite well! Though, I'm not so sure if I like the idea of having two variants. The other Robos each get one attack method, so does Robo Yellow really need two? It just seems a bit odd to me. If you really want to have both, maybe just make one variation a new color and make it guard either the QED replacement, fifth elevator machine, etc. (Don't worry, you won't hurt my feelings if my idea meets the chopping block -- it can always be reused in another mod.)
Ceilick wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 22:05 I'm still happy to hear more feedback on the creature designs presented and other ideas.
Just to make sure, is the Ohmbre an eye with two irises that's surrounded by electricity? Also, if it moves like an Orbatrix, will the Ohmbre also attack like one? Right now, I'm assuming it doesn't attack -- it just follows Keen and then teleports if it can't find him. It certainly sounds like an enemy that keeps you on your toes!

The first thing that came to mind when I saw that unnamed robot is that it looks like a toaster! I have trouble making out the stuff below the head; it looks like two hands carrying either sticks or knives. The robot looks like it floats, correct? A couple different ideas that came to mind:
  • Move left and right, shooting projectiles upward like a toaster.
  • Move towards Keen, stopping periodically. When it touches Keen, the robot steals something (maybe either ammo or a gem?) and then floats away from him. If Keen shoots the robot, it'll drop whatever it stole, so Keen can recollect it.
Ceilick wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 22:05The Omegamatrix, like the Omegamatic, features four machines/levels that make it possible to create a planetary defense shield over Fribbulus Xax. I actually did a bit of Sci-fi research here for these, but if anyone has a better idea for any/all of the machines, please share! What I have:

The Magnetic Field Manipulator: responsible for manipulating magnetic fields in order to shape a layer of plasma around the planet.

The Plasma Conduction Center: heats the layer of plasma so that objects that come in contact with it are vaporized.

The Ion Injection System: injects the plasma layer with ions to block high energy radiation weapons from penetrating the field.

The Photochromatic Emitter: allows the shield to block laser fire.

As you all know, this mod intends to strike a balance between new and old material. That said, would you rather see:
  • 4 completely new machines to break the fuses on?
  • 4 slight variations to the original machines?
  • the original machine graphics left alone?
So the Omegamatrix is the power source behind the force field over Fribbulus Xax? That's a neat idea -- a cool way of connecting the second and third episodes of your trilogy! The machines sound Keenish to me; I vote for completely new machines!
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Re: Operation Station Infiltration

Post by Nisaba »

you have my vote for 4 completely new machines to break the fuses. I imagine them to be brand new looking but somewhat related in terms of their designs to the original machines.
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Re: Operation Station Infiltration

Post by Ceilick »

Quillax wrote:I'm not so sure if I like the idea of having two variants.
Sorry, I was unclear, what I meant was that I'd share two variants as drafts share and get people's thoughts. I ended up giving up on the "light" variant as it just looked bad and have 3 different versions to show here:

Image

Far left: aiming down, the straps might be too silly.
Middle: aiming down, shoots downward.
Far Right: Aiming level, shoots a wave pattern. (I may further alter the gun in this case)
Quillax wrote:Just to make sure, is the Ohmbre an eye with two irises that's surrounded by electricity? Also, if it moves like an Orbatrix, will the Ohmbre also attack like one? Right now, I'm assuming it doesn't attack -- it just follows Keen and then teleports if it can't find him. It certainly sounds like an enemy that keeps you on your toes!
You've got it completely right!
Quillax wrote:The first thing that came to mind when I saw that unnamed robot is that it looks like a toaster! I have trouble making out the stuff below the head; it looks like two hands carrying either sticks or knives. The robot looks like it floats, correct?
Lol, its actually supposed to be a plug, and those two little hands are supposed to be antennae with some electricity. I like your interpretation though, and also the idea for a creature that steals something when coming in contact with Keen and then runs away!

However, after charting how I expect to utilize Keen 5's creatures, I think I'm really going to have to narrow down the list quite a bit.

I used this same method in Return to the Shadowlands to plot balanced creature usage across the levels:

Image

I don't know that this is my final selection for creatures (I added Sparky II, Sparky III, Sparky JR as the optional ones here), but this gives an idea of how I plan creature utilization. With Keen galaxy, it's hard to include more than a handful of enemies in a single level, for memory reasons and for level consistency (IMO), and as can be seen from the chart, this number of enemies already is pretty crowded. While I could spread thin some of the creatures to make room for new ones, I feel like, in general, I want to feature creatures in 3-5 levels each at a minimum, and each level should have 3-6 different creatures in it.
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Re: Operation Station Infiltration

Post by Nisaba »

Ceilick wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 3:00 With Keen galaxy, it's hard to include more than a handful of enemies in a single level, for memory reasons and for level consistency (IMO) [...]
You plan to work with the source code, don't you. I'm actually using up to 8 creatures in a single level. it's less a memory constraint as more of a design choice how crowded the place should feel. What I wanna say is that there are actually ways and tricks to include more than "just" 5 or so creatures, if necessary.
it might be easier on a planet like environment however to assign certain creatures to cave like places while others are only to be found near water or the like. within a spaceship you could however present alterations of certain creatures the more the player progresses, starting with with well known enemies and building your way up to more advanced / new creations throughout the journey. the linear structure of the ship would allow such enterprise...

that said, your chart looks very promising as well. I've always been a huge huge fan of getting to know some insights about how other modders organize and layout certain plans and structures, if at all. and you're are obviously doing things quite differently then I for one normally do. that's quite interesting for me to see.
while inspecting I noticed that the Shikadi are featured in quite a number of levels. Is there a reason why the Shikadi appear in the early level SecOp 1 but not in Kennel?
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